Colnago C59 61T Validation

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
MarkThailand
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm

by MarkThailand

There are other people who could give you geometry pointers. But, I got this from my local Colnago dealer to take to my Juteau-Cantin bike fitter when I was considering their C59. The page was from the official Colnago dealer handbook.

Hope this helps.

Image


If I am not suppose to share this, please inform me and I will delete it.

Mark
2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red

by Weenie


crossifino
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:30 am

by crossifino

Awesome you guys rock!!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@MarkThailand: There is nothing proprietary about Colnago's geometry tables. They are posted on Colango's website. Plus, the chart you show is not even the geometry chart for a C59. I believe it to be the chart for the C50's.

@Crossifino: I know I promised you a pic of my 61 C59 with the seat at your height. I'll try to get that done today sometime. If not, keep bugging me by PM till I do it for you.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

tinozee
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

Stack, reach? pleeeeeeeease?

The cad drawing shows a lower headset cup that I think is adding to the 617mm stack height shown in the diagram. I know this is the third time I've said this in this thread, but I've still yet to see an official stack height on the C59 anywhere. If it is 617 that's great, but I have no way to measure this.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok yes, I'll do stack and reach. I have the tools to do this so when I get back home this afternoon I'll do it. I've already done it several times and think I've written it down somewhere but ill double check my measurements. I use the Serotta X/Y tool which is nice because the cone shaped adaptor fits nicely into the campy cranks ensuring you are measuring from the exact center of the BB.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

crossifino
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:30 am

by crossifino

Thanks "Colnago" there is not too much rush as Ernesto and Silvio Berlusconi are having a bunga bunga party in their mansion and my frame is not built yet .... :(

They keep distracting the workers ...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, so here's what I got regarding a few pics and the stack and reach stuff.

As a comparison, here's my C59 as it sits now, with a saddle height of what I call 810mm, measure to a straight edge across the top. There's about a 5mm gap between the bottom of the straight edge and the dip of the saddle so you could say it's 805mm to the lowest point of the saddle. @Crossifino, this is probably something to consider since you use a saddle with a very big "dip" in the middle so adjust accordingly.

My C59 as I ride it currently with an 805mm saddle height:
Image

Same bike with the saddle jacked up to 855mm, @Crossifino's saddle height:
Image

A pic with my straight edge on the saddle which I use for measurement of saddle height and angle:
Image

Closeup to show the "gap" between the straight edge, versus the actual height I sit at... 810mm to the straight edge, 805mm to the saddle dip where I sit.
Image

Closeup of the stem area:
Image

Closer view of how much I raised the saddle (bottom edge of yellow tape is where it was before raising for photo):
Image

Ok... so in summary...
Up to you I guess... you know your fit better than me. Doesn't look extreme in the photo, but in reality I would need a step ladder to climb up there :).
I am using a 130mm -6 degree stem with a 3mm spacer underneath the stem and the 16mm tall top cover provided prior to the Acros headsets they're using in 2013. Given that here's some measurements as shown for what you propose:
Saddle height: 855mm
Saddle to handlebar drop: 159mm (see note below).
Saddle setback: 112mm
Distance from tip of saddle to bars (next to stem center): 647mm

Regarding drop, you said you'd be using the deda stem with a -8 degree rise. That will increase the saddle to bar drop by ~5mm over a -6 degree stem of the same length. Plus, I have a 3mm spacer and the older top cover which is taller than the Acros they now provide (but let's ignore the top cap difference for now since I don't know it exactly). So, if you did "slam" the stem you're looking at saddle to handlebar drop of 159+5+3= 167mm. In my mind that is a pretty big drop so I hope your arms are long as you say and you're comfortable with that. Again, you know your fit best.


Oh yeah, stack and reach for @tinozee: Stack: 609mm, Reach: 410mm measured to the center of the headtube flush with the top headset cup. This does not include any headset cover tops, which can vary.

Hope it all helps. Have fun!
Last edited by Calnago on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

LionelB
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Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

Can you please set it at 84cm saddle height and ship it to me ? ;-)

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@LionelB: LMAO!

Sometimes I bite off more than I should. Oh well... if it helps someone get it right... I'm happy. I know I was the same way.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

LionelB
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

BTW a -8 vs -6 is only 5mm of difference. Still this drop is going to be hard to handle....

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Good catch LionelB, you are right. I had a number in my head from something else I was doing, which included some spacers, etc. I'll edit my earlier post and make the correction.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

CrazyErrol
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:30 pm

by CrazyErrol

Can you clear up how you're measuring the saddle height Cal, not sure we got enough explanation and pictures. Maybe you could draw a diagram too?

tinozee
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by tinozee

Calnago tx for this info. :thumbup:

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@CrazyErroll: Sure, well first I set it as high as I can and tighten just enough so that it can still move a bit. Then, I put it in a stand and place my fat ass on it and jump up and down of course till it feels right. Then, I get off and tighten the whole thing up and call it good. Then, when people ask me what my saddle height is, I bring out all these elaborate measuring tools to pacify them. I find it highly entertaining. I hope you do too. :lol:

But seriously, you raise a good point Elliot, there is a whole cottage industry of so called fit techniques and methodologies. I've studied most of them, and at the end of the day... you know what, a good fitter can do it all by eye. Period. End of story. The rest is a bunch of hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo mostly contrived so that the fittee can feel good about paying large sums of money to get a "professional fit". All the measuring etc., is really only useful after the fact; when have actually already been lucky enough to find that good fit and are now in a position to record it so you can duplicate it again. It's just about being balanced on the bike. In fact, if a person when to three different fit experts I would put money down that they would come away with three different fit measurements. And they would probably all be good starting points. Then trial and error takes over in order to fine tune it as it's up to the rider to decide how he would like to tinker with that initial assessment. The body is remarkably adaptable. There's no harm in experimenting a bit.

But I applaud people who actually go through these kind of exercises as it helps to understand what is going on with the geometries of different bikes. Can we get carried away with all of it? Of course. Have we? Probably, but it beats trying to fix all the world's problems in one day.

At least, that's my view of it all.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


crossifino
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:30 am

by crossifino

Firstly thanks @colnago, I have not had the time to digest the information as yet as I am at work but wanted to take the time to share my gratitude for your time and doing this for me.

It looks pretty similar setup to what I have now...


Image

I am going to run the numbers over tonight when I get home, I do take your point regarding the -8 degree stem hence my conundrum but this gives me something to work with..

Cross

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