Campagnolo Wheels

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Valbrona
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

Are the rims the same across Shamal Ultra - Eurus - Zonda? Thanks.

istigatrice
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

by istigatrice

Zonda has "standard" milling while the higher end ones have a "hybrid-tordial" milling. I'm still not sure what the differences are, but when I asked the question, the general consensus was that it's purely for looks
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox

My Velocite Selene

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

by Weenie


thisisatest
Shop Owner
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Location: NoVA/DC

by thisisatest

I think the machined sections on the Eurus and Shamal are curved, taking a bit more material off and probably aiding aero a bit.
My understanding is that campy picks the lighter extrusions for Shamals vs Eurus as well.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 4 Beta

sawyer
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

coolmingli
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:10 am

by coolmingli

sawyer wrote:Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.


Nay, Shamal is.

5 8 5
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Location: UK

by 5 8 5

When Tour Magazine tested them the Zonda compared to the Shamal was a little heavier, stiffer and more aerodynamic.

Factor in better comfort (steel vs aluminium spokes) and significantly cheaper (about half the price) and there's only one winner - the Zonda.

User avatar
Stolichnaya
Posts: 2606
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Location: Vienna, AUT

by Stolichnaya

Deviating from the original question, Tour Magazine uses a weighted average when testing, which includes the pricing ususally.

Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.

125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.

sawyer
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

coolmingli wrote:
sawyer wrote:Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.


Nay, Shamal is.



I own both - have had Shamals for 7 years and two pairs of Zondas including the new Mega G3 iteration.

In the Shamal's favour is they are slightly lighter (c100g) and do feel a little snappier. If they are the ceramic version then the hubs will have a slight edge also (otherwise the internals of the hubs are the same).

If you're lucky enough to always have super smooth roads then comfort advantage of the Zonda doesn't apply.

But in any event the Zonda is:

- far cheaper
- slightly more aero
- less troubled by cross winds

The first and last of these are noticeable :beerchug:

Stiffness is a wash - very similar.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

sawyer
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Stolichnaya wrote:Deviating from the original question, Tour Magazine uses a weighted average when testing, which includes the pricing ususally.

Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.

125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.


Tour magazine issue I referred to was specifically the aerodynamic performance of the two wheels, in which the Zonda is fractionally superior.

Yes, I can indeed feel the difference between alu and steel spokes. We've done this one before on this forum at length and I'm far from alone. It's significant.

I don't doubt tyres and pressure make a bigger difference. Given these factors apply to both wheelsets it's a complete red herring for this discussion.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

5 8 5
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Location: UK

by 5 8 5

Stolichnaya wrote:Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.
125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.


I take it you haven't ridden both? I have with the same tubes, tyres and pressures and there is a noticeable difference.
If you've ridden Ksyriums you'd know what I'm talking about. To be fair Shamals are more comfortable than Ksyriums.

Weight was quite close when I owned both. 2009 Shamals 1439g, 2010 Zondas 1484g. It does vary year to year.

I do agree about the bearings though. The current Shamals with the USB are superior to the Zondas. When I owned Shamals the bearings were identical to the Zondas.

Good point Sawyer. Shamals do catch the cross winds more than the Zondas. Again not as bad as Kysriums.


Still not convinced Shamals are worth twice as much. A pair of Zondas, a Cult bearing upgrade and still have 300 quid left!

sawyer
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Those are very close weights 585! Mine show c100g difference.

For me at equal cost the Zondas would still better value. Spoke material and thickness are the decisive factors for reasons of comfort and handling in winds.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

ultyguy
Posts: 2224
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

Zondas are easily the best midrange wheels IMHO. I've been running them tubeless for a few years now (2-way) and they're stiff and aero enough to have gotten me a couple of results with late attacks. Standard bearings are great, never had any issue.

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5851
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.


Not sure it's due to the use of aluminium spokes or steel ones but there definitely is a noticeable trend to make wheels vertically stiffer (hence less comfortable).
Maybe it's the hub geometry, the rim shape or a combination of the above but I still have to find a aluminium spoked Campa wheel I actually like.
And yes, you somewhat can compensate for this lack in comfort by lowering tyre pressure (most certainly possible if it's a tubular version).

There's also my sneaking suspicion that Campa just wanted to outdo Mavic's Ksyriums. Which, IMHO. weren't all that way back then and are certainly passé now.

Then indeed, there's also the fact that those wide alloy spokes make for a lot of turbulence on top of being thrown around in cross winds. More so then the average 50mm deep carbon rim IME....

I've always liked a wheel with just a little bit of vertical flex. It's more comfy and I doubt it would be less efficient all things considered.

Just my two wodkas, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

User avatar
Stolichnaya
Posts: 2606
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Location: Vienna, AUT

by Stolichnaya

Understood, I tip a vodka back for you all.
I do own the Shamals, Ksyriums SSC and have extensively ridden the Zondas.
Sorry, I could not feel a difference (except for those crappy Mavic hubs that felt like the brake was rubbing...) in verticle compliance. Laterally the Shamals feel more reliable. I'll take the Shamals any day especially in bigger mountains.
The price difference in percentage terms is significant, the price is pure € is not enough to prevent me from saving up a bit longer for the Shamals.
Would I own the Zondas? Sure. But given the choice I'll take the wheelset with a more direct feel, lower weight and wind up speed aside.
My comment about the tire choice and pressure is valid in my experience. You can dramatically change the feel of a wheelset by fiddling with those two factors. Shamals too stiff for you? Try 25s.
The Shamals never feel out of control in big gusts (and we get those in Vienna), but then again I have some extra weight to keep them grounded.
585, not sure where you are buying your wheels, but 300 quid left over after upgrading the Zonda bearings sounds odd. We can get the Shamal 2-Ways for about €750 on the continent and the Zondas 2-Ways for about €450.

But, at the end of the day, we should probably all just save up an extra season or two and buy some Hyperons. :)

by Weenie


Geoff
Posts: 5014
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

+1 on the Shamals being fine in the wind. 20-knot cross-winds? No problem with the Shamals. Nice wheels all around.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post