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 Post subject: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Posts: 1302
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Are the rims the same across Shamal Ultra - Eurus - Zonda? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Posts: 602
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Zonda has "standard" milling while the higher end ones have a "hybrid-tordial" milling. I'm still not sure what the differences are, but when I asked the question, the general consensus was that it's purely for looks

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1980
Location: NoVA/DC
I think the machined sections on the Eurus and Shamal are curved, taking a bit more material off and probably aiding aero a bit.
My understanding is that campy picks the lighter extrusions for Shamals vs Eurus as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3994
Location: Natovi Landing
Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:10 am
Posts: 35
sawyer wrote:
Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.


Nay, Shamal is.


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1230
Location: UK
When Tour Magazine tested them the Zonda compared to the Shamal was a little heavier, stiffer and more aerodynamic.

Factor in better comfort (steel vs aluminium spokes) and significantly cheaper (about half the price) and there's only one winner - the Zonda.


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: Vienna, AUT
Deviating from the original question, Tour Magazine uses a weighted average when testing, which includes the pricing ususally.

Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.

125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3994
Location: Natovi Landing
coolmingli wrote:
sawyer wrote:
Yes - Zonda is box section. Shamal and Eurus curved.

Zonda is the best wheel of the three b/c of steel aero spokes - even if they all cost the same Z wins.


Nay, Shamal is.



I own both - have had Shamals for 7 years and two pairs of Zondas including the new Mega G3 iteration.

In the Shamal's favour is they are slightly lighter (c100g) and do feel a little snappier. If they are the ceramic version then the hubs will have a slight edge also (otherwise the internals of the hubs are the same).

If you're lucky enough to always have super smooth roads then comfort advantage of the Zonda doesn't apply.

But in any event the Zonda is:

- far cheaper
- slightly more aero
- less troubled by cross winds

The first and last of these are noticeable :beerchug:

Stiffness is a wash - very similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3994
Location: Natovi Landing
Stolichnaya wrote:
Deviating from the original question, Tour Magazine uses a weighted average when testing, which includes the pricing ususally.

Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.

125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.


Tour magazine issue I referred to was specifically the aerodynamic performance of the two wheels, in which the Zonda is fractionally superior.

Yes, I can indeed feel the difference between alu and steel spokes. We've done this one before on this forum at length and I'm far from alone. It's significant.

I don't doubt tyres and pressure make a bigger difference. Given these factors apply to both wheelsets it's a complete red herring for this discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1230
Location: UK
Stolichnaya wrote:
Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.
125 grams less is a welcome difference in weight when doing 5 passos in a day.

Plus there's the bearings in the two wheelsets to consider.


I take it you haven't ridden both? I have with the same tubes, tyres and pressures and there is a noticeable difference.
If you've ridden Ksyriums you'd know what I'm talking about. To be fair Shamals are more comfortable than Ksyriums.

Weight was quite close when I owned both. 2009 Shamals 1439g, 2010 Zondas 1484g. It does vary year to year.

I do agree about the bearings though. The current Shamals with the USB are superior to the Zondas. When I owned Shamals the bearings were identical to the Zondas.

Good point Sawyer. Shamals do catch the cross winds more than the Zondas. Again not as bad as Kysriums.


Still not convinced Shamals are worth twice as much. A pair of Zondas, a Cult bearing upgrade and still have 300 quid left!


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3994
Location: Natovi Landing
Those are very close weights 585! Mine show c100g difference.

For me at equal cost the Zondas would still better value. Spoke material and thickness are the decisive factors for reasons of comfort and handling in winds.

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 Post subject: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:30 pm 
Online

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1992
Location: Geneva
Zondas are easily the best midrange wheels IMHO. I've been running them tubeless for a few years now (2-way) and they're stiff and aero enough to have gotten me a couple of results with late attacks. Standard bearings are great, never had any issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5845
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Yes! You can actually feel the difference in comfort between the steel and alu spokes! :roll:
Tire pressure and choice will be more influential on comfort of a wheelset.


Not sure it's due to the use of aluminium spokes or steel ones but there definitely is a noticeable trend to make wheels vertically stiffer (hence less comfortable).
Maybe it's the hub geometry, the rim shape or a combination of the above but I still have to find a aluminium spoked Campa wheel I actually like.
And yes, you somewhat can compensate for this lack in comfort by lowering tyre pressure (most certainly possible if it's a tubular version).

There's also my sneaking suspicion that Campa just wanted to outdo Mavic's Ksyriums. Which, IMHO. weren't all that way back then and are certainly passé now.

Then indeed, there's also the fact that those wide alloy spokes make for a lot of turbulence on top of being thrown around in cross winds. More so then the average 50mm deep carbon rim IME....

I've always liked a wheel with just a little bit of vertical flex. It's more comfy and I doubt it would be less efficient all things considered.

Just my two wodkas, ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: Vienna, AUT
Understood, I tip a vodka back for you all.
I do own the Shamals, Ksyriums SSC and have extensively ridden the Zondas.
Sorry, I could not feel a difference (except for those crappy Mavic hubs that felt like the brake was rubbing...) in verticle compliance. Laterally the Shamals feel more reliable. I'll take the Shamals any day especially in bigger mountains.
The price difference in percentage terms is significant, the price is pure € is not enough to prevent me from saving up a bit longer for the Shamals.
Would I own the Zondas? Sure. But given the choice I'll take the wheelset with a more direct feel, lower weight and wind up speed aside.
My comment about the tire choice and pressure is valid in my experience. You can dramatically change the feel of a wheelset by fiddling with those two factors. Shamals too stiff for you? Try 25s.
The Shamals never feel out of control in big gusts (and we get those in Vienna), but then again I have some extra weight to keep them grounded.
585, not sure where you are buying your wheels, but 300 quid left over after upgrading the Zonda bearings sounds odd. We can get the Shamal 2-Ways for about €750 on the continent and the Zondas 2-Ways for about €450.

But, at the end of the day, we should probably all just save up an extra season or two and buy some Hyperons. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Campagnolo Wheels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4727
Location: Canada
+1 on the Shamals being fine in the wind. 20-knot cross-winds? No problem with the Shamals. Nice wheels all around.


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