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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Posts: 997
PSM wrote:
Why does Pierre Rolland choose the M10?


He's a professional. Professionals have also been known to choose to ride bikes with broken elbows, collar bones and pelvises.

This does not mean it would be life enhancing for me to do the same. :)


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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:48 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Location: People's Republic of Boulder
OP- Yes, I will regret the day they bury my C59 with me in my coffin.

Seriously though, if elusive "ride quality," Keira Knightly "sexy paint" jobs, and artisan "build quality" limited to 16 a day are finally important to you after years of riding a mass produced Chinese plastic frame, then go for it! ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:47 am 
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Posts: 344
Calnago wrote:
Absolutely. One should never let the bars dictate where you sit on the bike. The proper seated position is first and foremost in the fit process. Everything else follows from that.


I know that this will get a lot of flak, but:

Seating isn't nearly as exact than people make it out to be. Cycling is very dynamic and people move/shift a lot. Nobody is locked into some ideal state with fixed contact points. Of course, there are limits, but a few MM up or down usually doesn't matter. Consider different chamois, riding recovery or the rivet... clearly there is a large bandwith in which riders operate. Ergometer data also is very inconclusive here.

Heck, just imagine that most people here swap out components and frames on a regular basis. Within a margin it's no issue at all.

Sure, there are people with injuries who are noticing a MM up or down, but most people are not that sensitive.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:15 am 
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The new Europcar paintjob is superb. I wish they sell it to the public.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:18 am 
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Franklin wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Absolutely. One should never let the bars dictate where you sit on the bike. The proper seated position is first and foremost in the fit process. Everything else follows from that.


I know that this will get a lot of flak, but:

Seating isn't nearly as exact than people make it out to be....


@Franklin: no flak from me. In fact, completely agree. I don't think anyone was implying you sit in one spot as if you're glued to your saddle; however, there is a range that is appropriate for each person. What is not good is if you allow the bars to dictate something different and "out of the range" that's optimal for that individual. In the example, it seemed that the bars are forcing the rider to sit much further forward than he'd like to be. And that's not right. Get the seated position right first, then set the bars appropriately.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:46 am 
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Calnago wrote:
In the example, it seemed that the bars are forcing the rider to sit much further forward than he'd like to be. And that's not right. Get the seated position right first, then set the bars appropriately.


Excited to say, found a great deal on the Ergonova Stealth and will be following up shortly.

Guess I have a 42cm Ergosum LTD for sale now.... Off to the For Sale Forum.

Thanks Calnago. Also, did you see my post re: cutting seat post on the C59? (I may just chop up a 3T post instead)

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=116951

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Cheers,

cL

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 344
Calnago wrote:
Franklin wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Absolutely. One should never let the bars dictate where you sit on the bike. The proper seated position is first and foremost in the fit process. Everything else follows from that.


I know that this will get a lot of flak, but:

Seating isn't nearly as exact than people make it out to be....


@Franklin: no flak from me. In fact, completely agree. I don't think anyone was implying you sit in one spot as if you're glued to your saddle; however, there is a range that is appropriate for each person. What is not good is if you allow the bars to dictate something different and "out of the range" that's optimal for that individual. In the example, it seemed that the bars are forcing the rider to sit much further forward than he'd like to be. And that's not right. Get the seated position right first, then set the bars appropriately.


I guess I'm a tad sensitive to the fit argument due to the incessant "go see a fitter" mantra I see here and on other fora. Your post certainly doesn't go that far. And as the owner seems to agree, there's no further argument here ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:54 am 
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Location: Essex / Lincs UK
ichobi wrote:
The new Europcar paintjob is superb. I wish they sell it to the public.

They will in time I'm sure


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3330
Location: Natovi Landing
i[/quote]

The 3T Ergosum handlebars have tons more reach then the ENVE compact bar thus the need to slam the saddle forward on the C59.
.[/quote]

Surprised by this for someone apparently with lots of cycling experience.

Saddle position in relation to BB (assuming constant crank length, pedals, shoes) should ALWAYS be determined primarily and then look at bar/stem set up. Get your saddle in the right position FIRST and then find the right reach through bar and stem choice.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:39 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Norway
New paint schemes up on Colnago.com . Looking real good


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Posts: 378
Location: England, UK
Apart from the Mapei inspired one, I think they look horrible.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:51 am 
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I have a C50. Never ridded a C59, but I love my C50. Colnago geometry is delish. Stable and solid. The frame tubes don't flex when you squeeze them. You don't have to chose between a Medium and Medium-Large (get a 56cm). And you don't have to settle for a barfy sloping top tube.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 897
Location: Calgary
I've been riding in Italy the last couple of weeks so just saw this now. Regrettably, I didn't have a Colnago in Italy because it's so easy to travel with my S&S coupled Independent. I loved the comment about Italian geometry from the rider who bought a Trek. My IF is Italian geometry (copied a house brand Italian bike when I had it built in 2004) because I love Italian geometry, ranging from the slowish Colnagos through Wilier and Pegoretti to the rather quick handling Pinarellos. I rented a Trek in Maui a couple of years ago and decided I wouldn't ride it down Haleakala because I didn't have confidence in the handling.

To go back to the OP, yes, there is something about Colnagos. At 62, I have a lifetime supply of C40s (two brand new never ridden, three more with 500-5,000 km on them) because they're my favourite bike but I'm still considering a C59. I've had or have pretty well all the carbon ones except C59 as well as steel, ti and aluminum. All handle well and predictably. After a crash three years ago that kept me off the bike for 10 months, I want a bike that I feel confident on at speed (one of my local routes has a nice 75 km/hr descent). I'm happy on my Colnagos, my Wilier or my Pegoretti, but sold my Parlees because they just didn't "feel right". Funny, I'd put 20,000+ km on the Parlees before the crash and didn't have that concern.

I also like the sizing comments. I'm also 6'1", have owned 14 or 15 Colnagos, all 59 except for one 60. 12 cm stem, 9.5 cm drop works for me. Maybe I should go to 60 so I could slam the stem but 59 just seems right to me.

Pritchet, try one. Compared to Cervelos I've owned, I'd rate my Colnagos as a bit slower handling but predictable as were the Cervelos, heavier but probably a little plusher ride (and my Cervelos were R3 and RS, not one of the S models).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:55 am
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Ok.. My 2 cents worth: current stable includes a pinarello think 2 and a colnago c59. Both have exactly the same set ups (handlebars brakes etc)...wheels I split the usage between both bikes a pair of enve 1.25(tunes) and lightweights. The colnago is such a plush ride.. I love the colnago it's so much more comfortable. That's about all I can say for now


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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:29 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
Posts: 66
Bely wrote:
Ok.. My 2 cents worth: current stable includes a pinarello think 2 and a colnago c59. Both have exactly the same set ups (handlebars brakes etc)...wheels I split the usage between both bikes a pair of enve 1.25(tunes) and lightweights. The colnago is such a plush ride.. I love the colnago it's so much more comfortable. That's about all I can say for now


c50jim wrote:
...To go back to the OP, yes, there is something about Colnagos. At 62, I have a lifetime supply of C40s (two brand new never ridden, three more with 500-5,000 km on them) because they're my favourite bike but I'm still considering a C59. I've had or have pretty well all the carbon ones except C59 as well as steel, ti and aluminum. All handle well and predictably. After a crash three years ago that kept me off the bike for 10 months, I want a bike that I feel confident on at speed (one of my local routes has a nice 75 km/hr descent). I'm happy on my Colnagos, my Wilier or my Pegoretti, but sold my Parlees because they just didn't "feel right". Funny, I'd put 20,000+ km on the Parlees before the crash and didn't have that concern.

.......

Pritchet, try one. Compared to Cervelos I've owned, I'd rate my Colnagos as a bit slower handling but predictable as were the Cervelos, heavier but probably a little plusher ride (and my Cervelos were R3 and RS, not one of the S models).


I was wondering if the difference in feel is due to differences in frame construction: one is a monocoque carbon construction and the other is lugged carbon construction.

If we could draw parallels between
1) monocoque carbon frames vs lugged carbon frames and building structure construction with
2) pre-fabricated steel wall frame construction vs post on beam construction and
3) building structure construction with cast-in-place concrete vs pre-fabricated concrete post and beam construction,
there are should be significant differences in frame flexibility and resistance to vibration even though the ultimate building load bearing strength are similar. And, let's not even go into post-tension construction. There aren't that many examples of lugged carbon construction frames nowadays but I believe that there has to be difference in feel.

Perhaps that is why there is a difference in feel between carbon frames that are, more often than not, monocoque construction, and steel frames that are essentially tube on tube construction regardless whether they at lugged, TIG-wielded, or fillet-brazed. I believe that the Colnago C59 may have a hybrid steel frame feel due to the similar construction but different construction material of carbon vs. steel.

The above two posters may be able to share their experiences and bike feel between:
1) monocoque carbon fiber : Cervelo, Parlee Z5 et al, and others
2) lugged carbon fiber : Colnago C59 et al, Parlee Z1
3) lugged metal : steel, titanium

On a side note, I believe that the Parlee Z-Zero may offer a hybrid carbon fiber monocoque and lugged carbon fiber feel due to the construction method.

Thanks.

Mark


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