isn't it well established that reach to the bars should not be shortened or lengthened by saddle placement? saddle placement is dictated by where the center of the BB is, no? reach should be adjusted with stem length.
You guys are missing something. The Venge saddle is properly positioned, the C59 is not.
Why would I ride a stem shorter then 110mm? I'm 6'3" tall. I'm going to use a 100-90mm stem on a 60cm frame? No.
Did you miss the part where the saddle is slammed forward
on the C59? That is not where the saddle should be and it is not because of the stem, its because of the bars.
The shorter reach of the ENVE bars allows for perfect positioning of the saddle. If I wasn't so keen on keeping 3T (Italian....Asia) parts on my Italian frame I'd just get another set of Enve bars and call it a day.
I will get the same bar dimensions (from 3T) to match the Venge fit because the Venge fits perfectly.
I always felt the 3T Ergosum and Rotundo have too much reach. Ive always used 110mm stems and 42cm wide bars on all my bikes (even when I had carbonLORD branded products).
I had a 120mm 3T ARX LTD on the Colnago because everyone said longer stem, pro, bla bla bla. It was even more or a mess and the bike felt like it cornered wide. The 110mm stem helped but the weak link is the bars here, not the stem and not the saddle.
Really I'd go with a 0 set back seat post as well, but my saddle position currently is that of a TT bike. I want the saddle centered. I have a 33 1/2 inch inseam so I am more legs. I do not need a long bar, 120mm stem and 25mm set back seat post.
You cant get this stuff out of a fit book and apply it to every cyclist out there. If it weren't for building the Venge up, I many have never realized the bars are too long on the Colnago.
Look at all that reach from the stem top cap to the hoods!?
Now look at the Venge. (Look at the drops, look at the saddle position in both)