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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 102
Some brief background on me...I make outdoor gear for a hobby and my hatred of excess grams transitions there too. So I'm playing around with some really light but abbrasion resistant material and thought I'd try making some saddle bags.

My pro/con list:
+ Ridiculously light at 15g (compared to my 111g large and ~75g small bags that it compares to in volume)
+ Adjustable volume (can fit as much as the large saddle bag, or the smaller one...just roll the ends more/less before attaching to the bike).
+ Packs down to nothing (not really helpful but opens up alternative types of bags...a "bento bag" that compresses to the top tube when empty...etc)
- Not aesthetically pleasing (speaks for itself)
- Lossed functionality (Current design...to open the bag you need to detach it from the saddle rails and hold it in place)

For an extremely simple prototype, I'm pretty happy. It holds everything tighter and quieter (nothing moves around) than my other bag.
It's annoying to have to detach it from the saddle rails to get into it but I don't store ID, cash, nutrition inside anyway so it doesn't bother me...only need to get into it when I NEED to get into it...anything else goes into a jersey pocket...I think on my next version, I'll add a sleeve underneith for my cell phone to slide into.


Here's the 15g "prototype" I came up with:

Image

Image

Image


The full album has comparisons to my other saddle bags as well: http://imgur.com/a/maGr0/all


Also, I'm not really in a position to market and sell them on a large scale but if there's interest I'd be open to making these for forum members once I get a better design finished up...so input would be very helpful (for my own use as well as others, if they're interested in buying).


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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:07 am 
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Posts: 335
Hi jordo99, I am interested, and very clever :)
How many liters volume have you calculated .. or what do you think could be stored in it or how strong and tear proof do you think it is?

thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:15 am
Posts: 76
Interesting idea. Some comments:

- I think alot of people don't like a strap that goes around the post; it can mark-up the post and abrade shorts.

- Something that provides some degree of structure to the bag might be helpful.

- Personally, I'd like a clever strap design that kept the seatbag back on the rails. I have a scicon elan (small bag, with strap) that I keep in my jersey pocket because it slides forward on the rails of my seat. If I could keep the bag back, I'd leave it on the saddle. I could get a bag with a clamp mechanism, which seems better at keeping the bag from sliding forward, but the clamps are heavier and they seem to push the bag out a distance from the saddle, which looks funny.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 102
KLabs wrote:
Hi jordo99, I am interested, and very clever :)
How many liters volume have you calculated .. or what do you think could be stored in it or how strong and tear proof do you think it is?

thanks KL :)


I haven't tried putting an actual number of ml to the bag yet but it would be very easy as the material is waterproof. I might try to do just that sometime this week.
This would probably help estimate it pretty well though:

| Packs | -- nothing
| Smallest volume | -- 1 tube or multitool
| Largest volume | -- 2 tubes, multitool, 3 tire levers (not large ones but not tiny ones), patch kit, PSI gauge, large smart phone (4.6" screen).

...The |Largest volume| might be able to take a little more even becuase I just took what I could fit into the "large saddle bag" and moved it over. When fitting all that stuff in it, the bag will get very long down the seat tube though, which is something I want to try to avoid in my next version.


As for tear proof...The material is extremely tear proof but less resistant to puncture. Here's an example of it's strength. I'm using 1oz and 1.5oz and they're pretty similar, with the latter being featured at the end of the video.

The primary use of cuben was for racing boat sails but ove the past few years it's been used for a lot of innovation in backpacing such as tent/tarp material as well as backpacks...really just anything you need a strong, very light, waterproof material...it comes in a variety of strengths to choose from but for something this small you're not saving much weight (a few grams) for the durability you sacrifice.


Last edited by jordo99 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 102
are wrote:
Interesting idea. Some comments:

- I think alot of people don't like a strap that goes around the post; it can mark-up the post and abrade shorts.

- Something that provides some degree of structure to the bag might be helpful.

- Personally, I'd like a clever strap design that kept the seatbag back on the rails. I have a scicon elan (small bag, with strap) that I keep in my jersey pocket because it slides forward on the rails of my seat. If I could keep the bag back, I'd leave it on the saddle. I could get a bag with a clamp mechanism, which seems better at keeping the bag from sliding forward, but the clamps are heavier and they seem to push the bag out a distance from the saddle, which looks funny.


- Interesting that you say that about the strap/post...I've never ran into those issues but it's good to keep in mind. In the pictures of the bag on the bike, I hadn't added the reflective guides on the side...those help a lot in keeping it up under/in the saddle. I'll try to take another picture of that tonight to show how it mounts now.

- I actually bought a 12"x24" (30cm x 60cm x 1.5mm) sheet of ABS plastic for reinforcing the material if I need it. It's supposed to be heat moldable too :)

- From what I saw online, it looks like the strap just isn't wide enough and is placed too high (if you added another strap at the bottom it would fix the problem). I'll try making something similar in the next few days and post my results...my sewing machine is in storage right now so I can't add zippers though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Posts: 450
Nice idea but completely agree on the post strap. I would suggest as well to remove it and just use the saddle rails for holding it up. You don't even need a strap, just Velcro. Looking forward to see the finished product :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:56 pm 
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astranoc wrote:
Nice idea but completely agree on the post strap. I would suggest as well to remove it and just use the saddle rails for holding it up. You don't even need a strap, just Velcro. Looking forward to see the finished product :)


Thanks for the comment. Sounds like the WW community needs something geared even more towards minimalism. I should've known better :thumbup:

If people were interested in these, what all do you want it to be able to store? If I'm making one for myself, I'd probably make it just large enough to fit the following:
- spare tube
- mini-tool
- extra pocket/slit for smart phone, IDs and cash

...for me, I don't need to fit C02 in my bag becuase I have a bottle mounted pump/CO2 thingy.

For others, I think it might be helpful to include the C02 stuff. I believe I can make 1-2 of these tonight so I'd like to try making one for myself and one for what others would want just to compare.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Such a coincidence.

I'm actually working on a minimalist bag right now. It's heavier than yours by about 10g, but I'm aiming more for mass production and year-round reliability. It can hold the following:
-two tubes
-patch kit
-boot
-mini-tool
-tire lever

Currently on the 3rd rendition of it, I've been working with a professional bag maker for months to make this 'perfect'. It's also water proof (among a few other key features which set it apart from the rest of the market)

Hoping to get it onto KickStarter this summer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:51 pm 
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I put the following in the small sci-con elan bag I put in my pocket:

- one tube
- tire boot
- two tire levers
- 2 hex wrenches
- small patch kit

It packs up nice and tight.

An idea (which may not work) ... how about using a small "sheet" of plastic or CF inside the bag. When not in use the sheet would lie flat, but to install the bag you bend it, like a U, and set it between the rails of the saddle? The outward flex of the material should help hold the bag in place, though I imagine a strap would still be needed.

Also, another feature ... it might be nice to have a place to clip a light onto the back of the bag.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 102
prendrefeu wrote:
Such a coincidence.

I'm actually working on a minimalist bag right now. It's heavier than yours by about 10g, but I'm aiming more for mass production and year-round reliability. It can hold the following:
-two tubes
-patch kit
-boot
-mini-tool
-tire lever

Currently on the 3rd rendition of it, I've been working with a professional bag maker for months to make this 'perfect'. It's also water proof (among a few other key features which set it apart from the rest of the market)

Hoping to get it onto KickStarter this summer.


I'm assuming you're using Cuben then as well?
I have no intentions of making stuff on a mass scale but I'm debating on doing custom orders (made some backpacking stuff for members of backpackinglight) of stuff for people once I improve my skills/design.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Posts: 1769
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Nice material for a saddle bag. I have a wallet made out of it, works very well.

Be nice if the closure was really waterproof. Zippers generally suck for that.

I'd want to have enough length for a carbon mini pump. I try to have nothing in my jersey pockets - other than jelly beans - after a local rider punctured his lung with the keys in his jersey pocket when he crashed on a descent (not very high speed either).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
jordo99 wrote:
I'm assuming you're using Cuben then as well?
I have no intentions of making stuff on a mass scale but I'm debating on doing custom orders (made some backpacking stuff for members of backpackinglight) of stuff for people once I improve my skills/design.


Nope, not using Cuben. Although it's a great material, I didn't like how it was turning out and it lacked the 'finish quality' I wanted. I think Cuben works really well for the niche, but I'm hoping to make something that will appeal to more than just Weight Weenies (who often will favor weight over appearance). I'm using a mix of materials that come from the ultra-light camping niche which you're already familiar with, heavy-duty industrial (often b2b) world, and a few other little tricks that pull from ideas outside of the bag-world. Sometimes people who aren't weight weenies have little trust in something that even looks too thin despite the strength and qualities of the material. I want it to appeal to people who ride all the time: recreational/training/commuting/social. So then a 10g penalty for choosing another material seems, for now, worth it.

Keep going with your project! :thumbup:
It looks interesting and I like to see where it ends up. On my side of things, I have complete intentions on starting my own company, so my approach to this may be a bit different from yours - which happens all the time, no?

Good luck! :beerchug:

@mises When you're designing something for the mass market that isn't custom, getting the size right is a delicate balance. It gets even more difficult if you try to accommodate pumps: they come in so many sizes and options. Not everyone owns the pump you do, and there's no guarantee that your pump will still be on the market at a later date. What if you change the pump? Will the bag accommodate the new pump, or will the space be awkward (too large/small) for the change? Some people prefer larger, frame-size pumps, some prefer mini, some prefer C02 cartridge systems, etc:. The variables are simply too much to include unless the company itself is a rather large one with massive manufacturing/output/turnaround capacity... like Topeak... but I don't even think they're too keen on making individual bags to even begin to accommodate every single pump they have in their own catalogue, much less their competitors.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:47 pm 
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mises wrote:
Nice material for a saddle bag. I have a wallet made out of it, works very well.

Be nice if the closure was really waterproof. Zippers generally suck for that.

I'd want to have enough length for a carbon mini pump. I try to have nothing in my jersey pockets - other than jelly beans - after a local rider punctured his lung with the keys in his jersey pocket when he crashed on a descent (not very high speed either).


This is the "failed" prototype I did before I went with the rolled ends:
Image

More pics here.

The bag would technically work, but I call it a failure because I just wanted to make something to learn from and thus I didn't think through the zipper placement or a lot of other elements...just made it to see how the panels need to fit together properly and it's been very helpful...which is why there aren't any straps.
It's also got a plastic insert and I'm ok with using one again but the plastic weighs more than the cuben itself...still a 30g bag is very light


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Posts: 78
Location: Sierra Foothills, California USA
My Gawd man !! Is that a teaspoon in there ???? :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Posts: 362
Great weight weenie project


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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:58 pm 


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