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 Post subject: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Ohio, United States
Anyone have any experience with the 2013 Felt AR4? Good, bad, or not? If so please share.

Before you reply, I know that it is NOT a light bike at around 17-18 lbs. Please do not include anything about the weight in reviews.

The first thing that will go when I get it is the wheel set. The Shimano RS30 are not that aerodynamic and are heavy at 1960g.

If anyone has any input besides that it would be great.

I should also mention that I am primarily looking at Felts due to Felt being one of the main sponsors of my cycling team. So I get the frames at cost.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1321
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Not a stiff frame. I would much rather get a F series for the tapered headtube and much stiffer tubing overall.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Ohio, United States
I do a lot of road races where I end up off the front by myself which is why I was looking at the aero frame. The one thing that I was a little concerned about was its climbing ability as it isn't a terribly stiff frame.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 1:23 pm
Posts: 729
Location: uk
go for the boardman aero ...best of both worlds...

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 255
Location: London
The AR isn't terribly aero. It's what I'd call a last generation aero frame with deep cross-sections. This makes the frame neither light nor stiff nor particularly comfortable. Obviously there is the Cervelo S-Series, but I think you'd be better off with a Scott Foil, Trek Madone, BMC TMR01 or even a Cannondale Super Six Evo due to its relatively small tube sizes. These bikes/frames are both aero and light.

Edit: I didn't see the tie-in with Felt. I still stand by my comments. In terms of Felt I choose an F series bike or an FC frame set.

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--Max.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Ohio, United States
Thanks for the suggestions. I will look at the F3. I did look at the BMC and Cannondale bikes as my first preference, however with Felt being a sponsor I can get a (mostly) equal bike for 1/3 of the cost. For example the AR4 which is typically $3500 MSRP, I get for $1800.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:00 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 137
It may seem strange for a Cervelo engineer to praise a different brand, but the AR series is quite good in the tunnel: almost as aero as our own Cervelo S-series bikes. Far ahead of the so-called "second generation" of aero bikes, most of which just add a touch of aero styling to otherwise STW bikes.

Buy what you like, but if you want speed the AR is a little faster than most of the others you've listed.

_________________
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Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1321
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Maximilian wrote:
The AR isn't terribly aero. It's what I'd call a last generation aero frame with deep cross-sections. This makes the frame neither light nor stiff nor particularly comfortable. Obviously there is the Cervelo S-Series, but I think you'd be better off with a Scott Foil, Trek Madone, BMC TMR01 or even a Cannondale Super Six Evo due to its relatively small tube sizes. These bikes/frames are both aero and light.

Edit: I didn't see the tie-in with Felt. I still stand by my comments. In terms of Felt I choose an F series bike or an FC frame set.


The Super Six Evo isn't even close to an aero bike. Tested worse than a Tarmac SL4 in Cervelo's RCA white paper.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 255
Location: London
I know it isn't all that aero but it isn't too bad compared to other round-tubed bikes. I included it in the list because it is light and rides well. Something which can rarely be said about true aero frames.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1321
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
It is as bad if not WORSE than other roundish tube frames in terms of drag. Read the RCA white paper. It does not belong on that list at all in terms of aero. In terms of STW, there are plenty of options...


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 Post subject: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 365
Location: Austin, Texas
Maximilian wrote:
but I think you'd be better off with a Scott Foil, Trek Madone, BMC TMR01 or even a Cannondale Super Six Evo due to its relatively small tube sizes.


I read that page on Cannondale's website where they tout the aero features of the EVO. First I laughed. Then, I was astounded at the audacity for them to make such ridiculous claims.

They are saying narrow tube shapes make it aero. That's simplifying a bit. My CAAD 3 from 1999 has a 1" steerer. That would make it really aero, right?

Their other claim is that the hourglass narrowing of the top tube allows the knees to be closer together allowing less drag from your body. I don't think you will really modify the natural track of your stroke just because the top tube is narrower.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Posts: 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
Everytime I read something about aerodynamics of a bike frame, I want to take my lugged steel bike with its skinny tubes and 1" fork to the A2 wind tunnel in North Carolina and see how it compares. Anybody want to help me rent the wind tunnel for an hour? :-) It's a relatively short drive from Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1321
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Lugged? Not well.

I have a non lugged steel 1" frame and that would get destroyed in the tunnel by an AR4 and S5/Venge.
Aero frames are 1 inch wide as well but 3 inches deep. Your 1" tubing is no thinner than that of an aero frame and doesn't have the airfoil shaping


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Posts: 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
I know, I was just being facetious. :beerchug:

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Felt AR4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1321
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
:) it's nice of Cannondale to do no aero testing at all on an Evo and make a claim like they do.


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