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 Post subject: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 860
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
So, more and more threaded assemblies come with some blue stuff on. Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 seems the likely stuff. However, as far as I know this is a liquid applied to the male threads immediately prior to assembly and which cures in the absence of air. Is this the stuff that is applied onto threaded assemblies at the factory, because when the end user gets the part out of the box, rather than it being a liquid it has dried into a solid ... although not cured ... when all along it shoud be applied as a liquid immediately prior to assembly.

And how does the use of anti-seize grease fit alongside the use of threadlocker?

And thirdly, isn't the use of something like Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 plain stupid when you have to use something like methylene chloride to remove the stuff? I mean, we've all got a bottle of methylene chloride to hand.

Any threadlocker-type comments welcome. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 29
Factory applied threadlocker is a different beast.. it's "encapsulated epoxy" - when you torque them down, the stuff mixes and turns into threadlocker. I don't think it directly compares to "loctite medium blue" that we know and love.

It could be much lower shear, different anti-corrosion properties.. I've no idea.

Personally if it has factory goop, I leave it alone. If I reinstall, hit it with a brass brush and stick some grease on it for anti-seize/corrosion resistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:23 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Valbrona wrote:
Any threadlocker-type comments welcome. Thanks.


To be honest, I can't recall the last time I've ever used a threadlocker on a build. Yet, despite that, I've never encountered any issues during use nor disassembly.

That being stated, I am interested to see if you or others can recommend a specific type of thread-locker product that I have not been able to find.
It would be between a plastic-type (assume it's plastic, or carbon fiber) bolt (male) and metal part (female). Once threaded in, the bolt is fairly solid and does not seem to jiggle or losen, however I would like to find a type of 'thread locker' that ensures that it won't loosen due to vibrations over rough roads, however it the bolt is still adjustable by hand (a tool can not be used once the bolt is in place, only thumbs). Is this sort of application possible? Does a product like that exist?

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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1737
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Loctite makes low strength thread lock compounds i.e. #222.
You'd have to read the data sheet to see if it is appropriate for plastic and how much torque is required to loosen it.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:10 am 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
My LOCTITE Threadlocker 222 package states "NOTE: Threadockers are for metal parts and are not recommended for plastic."

As to whether other threadlocker models are appropriate ... ?


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:33 am 
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Loctite do lots of threadlockers. I have always thought in terms of Blue 242 as being best for bicycle applications - threaded assemblies only. However, if you of course apply this as a liquid when you assemble - as the directions indicate - it means you can't use any other substance with it. And that means using solely threadlocker or solely grease on threaded assemblies. Which begs another question: Which is best for threaded assemblies - threadlocker or anti-seize grease?

This 'factory applied threadlocker' sounds the type of stuff we ought to be using, as 'dem' indicates below. However, is this just standard threadlocker which has dried out in between being applied at the factory and the part making its way to the end consumer? When this 'factory applied threadlocker' has come on parts, I have always left it on and still used anti-seize grease as well.

dem wrote:
Factory applied threadlocker is a different beast.. it's "encapsulated epoxy" - when you torque them down, the stuff mixes and turns into threadlocker. I don't think it directly compares to "loctite medium blue" that we know and love.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:06 am
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Locktite sticks to aluminum much harder than it does to steel. I suggest not using it on aluminum. Aluminum corrodes and aluminum oxide has 10 times the volume of the aluminum so it acts as a thread locker by itself. Wheelsmith spoke prep is locktite combined with teflon if you want to try something different.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 504
Off the top of my head, there is not a place on a bike that a properly torqued bolt/nut needs to have locktite. Being that most of my stuff is aluminum/titanium, the last thing I want is to make it more difficult to remove.

I choose to use some type of oil/anti-seize to help things get to the proper torque and to make it easier when it comes time for servicing.

Ok, maybe spoke nipples.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:48 pm
Posts: 29
My guess is the factory applied stuff is more anti-seize than threadlocker. If it is threadlocking, it is very mild.

Look at it from the lowest common denominator, a random person just bolts stuff on, no grease, no threadlocker.. factory puts a dab of goo on each fastener and some percentage of customers don't either lose their bolts nor permanently bond them together via corrosion.

Cheap, fast, lowers complaints and hassles. Ideal? Probably not.

The only fasteners I can recall specifically putting threadlock on are alloy chainring bolts. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:16 am
Posts: 13
Blue loctite just isn't enough when it comes to a well stocked tool box these days, it used to be a few years ago but now I would recommend people that work on a lot of bikes (not just their own) to at least have these loctite products on hand.

#425 for metal to plastic
#222 for alum, ergal, etc.
#609 for bearing seats and places that need bonding
C5-A copper anti-seize for ti stuff that gets big torque values

Specific applications of each of these could be a long thread so I'll keep it at just the products I like.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 493
I'm definitely gunna start using some sort of Loctite (or something similar) for "seize protection" on my wet day bike, because grease -- even marine grease -- eventually washes out. I recently rode a hard 45km in heavy rain with tons of road spray, and came home to find that most of the grease had gone from the threaded parts that were subject to the most 'abuse' from the weather (pedals, BB, etc). I ended up undoing and re-greasing almost every bolt on the bike, except the levers. I even rebuilt and re-greased the hubs and all the bolts on both derailleurs. :D

Man, there was water everywhere!! Not only inside the frame, but even on the axles in the middle of the hubs (old Shimano: cup and cone). So, I'd like to rebuild the bike with something better than grease.

I did some work on a friend's old mountain bike, and it was one of the most trashed bikes I've seen. The cables housings were damaged and barely holding the cables, which were frayed. The sealed BB axle was a bit wobbly. The cog and chainring teeth were the sharpest (worn) I've even seen -- and there was lots of corrosion on the frame.

I assumed I might not be able to get the BB off, but not only I could I get it off, but the threads on both the BB and the frame shell were totally pristine, due to the cream-coloured powdery stuff on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:31 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 860
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
The parts this threadlocker/epoxy stuff is coming on these days includes:-

chainring bolts, eg. Stronglight
brake fixing bolts, eg. Campag
bottom bracket cups, eg. Stronglight ActivLink


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 1969
Location: NoVA/DC
Loctite will make removal of a fastener a consistent level of force harder to remove than to install. It's much better than the alternative- corrosion leading to stuck fasteners. Loctite also provides some lubricant properties during install, and seals the threads well. It, for the most part, will keep your aluminum threads from oxidizing. I use 222 and 242 (or 243 or 248) extensively on threads- chainring bolts, cleat screws, any rack or fender hardware, Italian bb cups, any campy cups, crank spider lockrings, track cog lockrings, etc.
The dried stuff is different, but similar in intent. It is Dri-Loc.
If you want something you can apply and then use soon but not right away, look at Loctite 248 sticks. Like a chap stick, but don't put it on your mouth.
As well as the list previously mentioned, Loctite primer 7649 is nice to have on hand.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:18 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Threadlocker Part 12
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 337
Loctite 290 Green for Zipp wheels as recommended by Zipp. I had to use it on my 2013 404's as one spoke kept unwinding. It is medium strength vibration resistant for finished fasteners and made to apply after parts are assembled as its wicking.

Loctite makes a few dozen different versions of red, blue and green all with specific applications and removal procedures.

Its no longer a choice of 3 colors so don't run out to the store and start using general purpose on everything.

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