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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:13 am
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okay so im new at this bike situation but idk if i should get a 52cm or 55cm cause im kinda afraid of heights...and falling so would i look stupid riding a 52 ? cause my friend has a 55 and i felt like it was too high


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:48 am 
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mattr wrote:
Why do so many nodders buy huge bikes, have the bars up round their ears, a tiny stubby stem and the saddle as far forward as it will go, and they STILL can't reach the pedals properly.

Then weave around, pretty much out of control, in the middle of the club run.


Nonsense. There is nothing wrong inherently to adopt a different approach more akin to what we rode in the eighties. Your elitarian blahblah is just that. Blahblah. A bigger bike does not make one ride out of control :noidea:


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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:48 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:58 am 
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Talking about controlling the bike... I used to race on a Giant TCR. I could easily overtake 1 or 2 guys in each corner with that bike. I had to take a 5 year break for medical reasons and am now back on the bike. Looking for a more comfortable bike I stumbled upon a BMC GF01 that was on sale.
My handlebar is now 1,5cm higher and 1cm shorter. When cornering I feel it is very hard to hit the apex. I thought it was because of the change in position combined with me being off the bike for so long and having lost the 'feel'. But whenever I'm back on my TCR it just seems easier to nail a turn. My position on the TCR is better to control the bike, but after an hour of riding I feel like an old man. After my 5 year break, the first time I got back on that TCR I felt like... how the f*** was I able to ride this thing for 5 hours without discomfort. My back and neck hurt just from looking at that bike. And when riding, my knees were hitting my stomac, reminding me of the >20kg of fat that I had gained :mrgreen: I'm almost back at my racing weight, but have lost a lot of flexibility and core strength. So I need a more comfortable position, but would still like to be able to nail a turn.

Do you guys think it is because of the position? What should I change?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:56 pm 
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It sounds like your weight is too far to the rear of the bike. Try nudging your saddle forward.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:50 pm 
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There is also so much more to fit than rider height obviously. I measure in at 6'1 and ride a bike with 55cm TT, 52cm ST, 150mm HT, 110mm -17 stem with a Veloflyte bearing cover to lower it as far as possible. People look at it, then look at me and crack things like "What is that, your little sisters bike?" It comes down to having a short torso and very long arms, so my fit is short with a rather large saddle to bar drop (152mm).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:17 pm 
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[quote]Why do so many nodders buy huge bikes, have the bars up round their ears, a tiny stubby stem and the saddle as far forward as it will go, and they STILL can't reach the pedals properly.
/quote]

Totally agree. Pros are pros and they look good no matter what they ride and at the same time general public is rutinely getting bikes that are too short
with stems sticking up like sore thumb and saddles w/no setback to compensate for arched back.

I think the trend is going on because we have carbon frames now in 4 sizes generally, with extremely tall head tubes and to get aerodynamic you need
a size smaller frame with slammed -17deg. long stem on short head tube and if the top tube is not long enough so be it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Serge58 wrote:
Quote:
Why do so many nodders buy huge bikes, have the bars up round their ears, a tiny stubby stem and the saddle as far forward as it will go, and they STILL can't reach the pedals properly.


Totally agree. Pros are pros and they look good no matter what they ride and at the same time general public is rutinely getting bikes that are too short
with stems sticking up like sore thumb and saddles w/no setback to compensate for arched back.


So actually you do not agree at all.... He says the bikes are too big (thus too long as well) and you say the bikes are too short. :noidea:

Okay let's go over the amazing points:

1. There is no amazing special fit.
2. Not every pro looks good on a bike, though they usually slam their stems, which somehow is being seen in this nook of the internet to be the greatest thing ever. Adam Hansen, Purito, Alberto, Chris Froome. Different look on the bike and most certainly not all looking "good".
3. To continue abot the stem: There is no reason why you would want a stem so low that it is uncomfortable. So yeah, if you need a stem pointing up... you bought a frame that is too smal, probably spurred by the general idea that a racing bike should be tiny.

Somehow there's this absolutely bizarre idea that not only everyone has the flexibility of a pro, but also has the same build. Of course we all know that this isn't the case. I'd say some people have some fashion weenieism and confuse that with the real world. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Geoff wrote:
+1 on the headtube length (for the purpose of getting the bars low enough). The toptube length (within reason) is irrelevant. Assuming the headtube angle, seattube angle and bottom bracket height are the same, you can attain the same effective toptube length with a longer stem and saddle setback.


That can't be right. I think you make a mistake there and mean something else:)

If headtube and seattube angle are the same, but the top tube has a different size you can NOT mimmick that by having more setback. You could only do it with a longer stem. The reason is that Saddle seatback will change the effective seattube angle thus destroying the mimmicry.

The only way to fix a reach difference is through the stem and that has it's limits (though certainly bigger than people here imagine).

But let's keep a few incredibly important things in mind:
1. Bicycle fit isn''t a science. And no, a fitter doesn't do much more than use some presets numbers and then just use his eyeball. With genzling's formula and a modicum of sense you can fit yourself easily.
2. Cycling is dynamic, we all move around on our bikes a lot more than we imagine. A few MM higher/lower longer/shorter are practically not to be discerned. And in that area too high/long is generally a much harder limit than too low/short.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:42 pm 
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Franklin wrote:
Nonsense. There is nothing wrong inherently to adopt a different approach more akin to what we rode in the eighties. Your elitarian blahblah is just that. Blahblah. A bigger bike does not make one ride out of control :noidea:
I'm guessing you struggle with sarcasm, parody and humour as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Okey, so a couple of notes on these armchair online bike fit "experts". When someone says that a person without setback has the wrong fit, without having a single clue of the actual STA (let alone femur length, shoe size, crank length and what else that decides setback), is just a complete tool... This person seriously has NO clue about bike fitting. Please immediately stop throwing around this nonsense.

Secondly, putting together an upwards stem with the wrong size frame, this person CLEARLY lacks ALL understanding of the limits of modern frame manufacture and that people actually have to make due with the very limited geometry variations available on todays market of non-custom fabricated frames. And please, please understand how this mainly affects aesthetics and not function.

And to all you armchair no-clue bike fitters, for the love of God please try to wrap your head around the various differences between actual bike fit (not just fitting the bike to the rider but conversely also fitting the rider to the bike) and what else that is just aesthetics. Buying a frame to fit a certain stem is NOT bike fitting.

Sorry to be this harsh, but some of the things said here just doesn't stand to reason.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Setback is no more or less than changing the seat tube angle. Saying someone needs setback is just funny as hell.

But I fail to see why an upward stem is inherently flawed over spacers. For tall guys there's no problem with a few spacers. And though it's hard to say, but I'd say Sepp is not rocking a long stem here.. and he's on a defy with a longer headtube to put some insult to injury ;)

Image

But more specific: I see no problem with less drop than being usually advocated here. Not all people here race. Not everyone is as young and lite as most young gods here. Indeed many people seldom use the drops.... with less drop the drops become a lot more usefull. I'm not advocating monstrosities, but fashion weenism over function has it's limits imho.

mattr wrote:
Franklin wrote:
Nonsense. There is nothing wrong inherently to adopt a different approach more akin to what we rode in the eighties. Your elitarian blahblah is just that. Blahblah. A bigger bike does not make one ride out of control :noidea:
I'm guessing you struggle with sarcasm, parody and humour as well.


Admitted frankly: yeah that went straight over my head :beerchug:


Last edited by Franklin on Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 165
Location: NZ
I cringe every time I hear/read someone doing/advocating moving the seat back/forwards to fit a frame. To me, this is first item that's non negotiable along with seat height.

So my frame is custom so that I have enough reach and drop with the correct length stem slammed :lol: ; and I also made it zero setback off the back of a 72.5 STA & SMP seat.

Those who can fit off-the-rack frames are fortunate yet unfortunate that they are less compelled to experience going custom.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Location: NZ
And look at how much drop Sep has, and how little he has to drop his elbows to get his back flat.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:37 pm 
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shimmeD wrote:
I cringe every time I hear/read someone doing/advocating moving the seat back/forwards to fit a frame. To me, this is first item that's non negotiable along with seat height.
Uhm no, that's not a bad approach at all unless done for the right reasons.

Never changing setback only works if every bike you will ever own has exactly the same seattube-angle. Indeed, as you realize even saddlechoice affects this issue. As a person who uses the gudfugly but so godly comfortable SMP generally you are forced to use less setback. I own several bikes and setback changes depending on the bike.


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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:37 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:47 pm 
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shimmeD wrote:
And look at how much drop Sep has, and how little he has to drop his elbows to get his back flat.

Sep is on the other end of guys like Pozzovivo and Purito. Whereas they have wheels that are too big, Sep could use some bigger hoops. :wink:

Kidding aside, bike geometry becomes a mess at both extremes. Small bikes are relatively long, bigger bikes generally seem too short. To drive that one home: The reach difference between a 45s and 60s Colnago C60 is a whopping 2 and a half cm... !

You can easily see it by looking at how taller pro's often are past their headset with their shoulders smaller riders tend to be above or even behind. Smaller riders also usually reach a flatter back by reaching forward as they are drop limited, whereas long guys just go downwards.

Not even is bikefitting no science, bikes aren't exactly scaling well which makes giving fit advices pretty tricky without seeing it in person.


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