Weight Weenies

How can you tell the difference between Gen I and Gen II? I see people selling Gen II wheels but some of them have different carbon weaves. I can't seem to find much info on the web, but the two carbon patterns I see are shown in the link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38573046@N03/8930211070/

Thanks.

afaik gen 1 have kevlar spokes, brownish colour, gen 2 onwards have carbon fibre spokes, black

gen 1...

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I believe sungod is incorrect. Full carbon fiber spokes (elimination of kevlar with concomitant color change) were introduced in gen 3, and distinguish them from gen 2. Gen 1 and gen 2 both had spokes with carbon fiber/kevlar mixture.

Also, I believe CarbonSports Lightweight Ventoux was considered to begin with gen 2 (i.e., there was no CarbonSports Lightweight Ventoux gen 1).

Thanks - I agree Gen III had carbon spokes. If there's no Gen I, it may explain why there isn't much data on the web. Any idea why the carbon pattern would change in Gen II?

There was such a thing as gen 1 for Standard and Obermayer, but not for Ventoux.

There were at least 2 different carbon weaves (labeled in the flickr pictures as Ventoux 1 and Ventoux 2) for Ventoux gen 2, with I think the 2nd weave (labeled in the flickr pictures as Ventoux 2) continuing on into gen 3. I don't know why CarbonSports changed the carbon weave, nor whether there is any associated functional performance difference between them.

As for how to tell the difference between gen 1 and gen 2 for Standard and
Obermayer, I do not personally know how to do that (which isn't to say that someone else doesn't), other than by consulting CarbonSports (perhaps with product serial number in hand).

HammerTime2 wrote:There was such a thing as gen 1 for Standard and Obermayer, but not for Ventoux.

Not so. I had the same question about my Ventoux set and after sending Carbonsports pics and my serial number they responded by saying "without a doubt" mine were Gen I.

According to Carbonsports the Ventoux Gen breakdown is as follows...

-Ventoux Gen.I: Carbon Kevlar Hybrid Spokes, 3k-Carbon Weave
-Ventoux Gen.II: Carbon Kevlar Hybrid Spokes, 12k-Carbon Weave
-Ventoux Gen.III: Carbon Spokes, 3k-Carbon Weave (name later changed to Gipfelsturm)

On a German forum I also found this posting from Andreas at Carbonsports about the Gen differences (Translated from German):

Generation "0" (Not officially in name, only a suggestion): Before ~Juni 2004
Recognized as:
• Shimano-/Campagnolo-Hubs
• No valve hole (V-cutout)
• 2 sprayed logos per side
• Hybrid Carbon Kevlar spokes

Generation I:
• From ~06/2004
• DT 240 and TUNE Hubs
• Valve hole
• 2 printed logos per side
• Hybrid Carbon Kevlar spokes

Generation II:
• From Eurobike 2006
• DT 240 and. TUNE Hubs
• 4 printed logos per side
• Stiffer and lighter than Gen. I
• Hybrid Carbon Kevlar spokes

Generation III:
• From Eurobike 2007
• DT 240 and TUNE Hubs, last from ca. 03/2008 replaced with DT 190 Ceramic and Steel
• 4 printed logos per side
• Full carbon spokes
• Again slightly increased stiffness

Ventoux presented at Eurobike 2008 as Gen. III (Full carbon spokes, 3K weave).

Hope that helps!

Well, perhaps CarbonSports doesn't have a consistent story on whether there was gen 1 Ventoux.

In response to my email "Are these Generation II wheels? Were there
ever Generation I Ventoux wheels?"

In an email to me on January 10, 2007, David Begmann, of CarbonSports Sales, wrote:... By the way all Ventoux wheels are Gen. II.

David Bergmann was the original person (prior to Andreas) posting as CarbonSportsGmbH on this forum. Here is CarbonSportsGmbH's first post on this forum.

In So what happened to Carbonsports NA?, CarbonSportsGmbH wrote:Hello everybody,

this is David Bergmann from CarbonSports. As there have been so many interesting rumors about Lightweight we'll invite you to our booth no. 456 during this years "Interbike2009" to clear things up. You ll be also able to speak with our founder Erhard Wissler or to chat with our head of sales germany, the ex tour de france rider Jörg Ludewig.

Kind regards,
David

I also got he same response back from Carbonsports NA...that they were all Gen II's.

However when I registered my chip number using the online registration form the email I got back states:

The following wheel was added to our registration database:
type: Ventoux, Gen. 1, chipnumber 0415C3XXXX

So, yes they don't have a consistent story but Carbonsports GmbH at least seems to recognize my set as Gen I ventoux.(3K weave and hybrid spokes)

I did not know the Ventoux front hub was a Tune one. I though it as something made by LW.

kgt, I believe you are correct, and the hubs listed by MrKris for gen 1,2, and 3, refer to rear hubs, not front. Moreover, the front hubs for the Ventoux "Tune" (as it used to be called) or 190 were different than for the "DT" or 240.

So how can I tell if my wheels are gen I? I haven't received a response from Carbon Sports email.

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