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 Post subject: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
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Location: England
With all optional carbon kit on the Campag (levers and cranks);

Weight - close enough not to matter
Price - Campag £100 cheaper
Cassette - SRAM 10spd, Campag 11
Campag will require new wheels (I have Shimano 10 spd hub currently)

Really torn with the decision. Top-end SRAM or mid-range Campag. I ride Campag currently so am used to it, which is a bonus, and I really like the feel of the new Campag levers and hoods.

What should I do? Please no one mention Shimano as it is not an option.

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:29 pm
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Location: Croatia
Riding Campagnolo for more than 30 years , so my choice will be Centaur,

but after all thats just my opinion

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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:31 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Centaur is ten speed, just so you know.
Force isn't top end Sram either. Second tier, which is about to get a huge facelift leaving what you'll get as mid-range.
You shouldn't need new wheels for Centaur, just a 10s campy freehub.

All that said, I say go Campy. Because I already have force and want a Centaur bike. :3
Price will break even after switching the freehub, so just pick the one whose ergonomics you like. Sram has an amazing mechanical tactile feel to the shifting, Campy is more refined and has that sexy hood shape.

Oh the most important thing! Will the red Centaur components look good on your bike? If so, then absolutely get centaur with red hardware. If not, go with whichever matches the rest of your kit.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Location: England
I do love SRAM's feel, but the argonomics of Campy are superior. The website I was looking at says 11 speed, but they also quote incorect weight figures so I wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong!

Not worth buying a new freehub for my wheels as they're being upgraded in a few months anyway (just means more money in the short-term with campag)

Force has been likened to Red by various sources, and has been said to be of the same feel and quality, which is what I based the high-end comment on.

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Current force is almost identical to old Red (Red Black), but Red just got a huge upgrade and Force will be getting one as well, leaving old Force and Red Black in the dust. I do think, however, that Force is definitely the higher-end of the two groups. If I were to compare Force to Campy, I'd say Force is on par with Chorus. Centaur is more like Rival level of quality. Still all good stuff, mind you.

You might want to double check your sources, Chorus is the lowest level 11sp Campy groupset. I have a feeling you'll find that Centaur is a bit heavier than the numbers you found:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101775

Two years ago, I would have said Force no question.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Hmm, valid points.

One thing that has been mentioned and something I find a bit irritating is people say that new SRAM is coming out. This doesn't suddenly make the current kit rubbish, it is still bloody good, and as we are comparing current SRAM with current Campag saying this has no effect on the decision. New SRAM is priced at £2000 so is just not a comparison at all.

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Location: Mississippi
Isn't Athena the lowest level Campy 11 group? It is.

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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:51 pm 
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So what you're saying is 10 speed Centaur isn't the same as 11 speed Centaur in quality?

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Location: Croatia
Yes,

Athena is lowest 11 speed group,

Centaur is 10 speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:53 pm 
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alexh wrote:
So what you're saying is 10 speed Centaur isn't the same as 11 speed Centaur in quality?


I am missing something?

There is no 11 speed Centaur.(for now)

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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Okay, must be a mistake on the website I was looking at then

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Now there is the 11 speed force with the yaw FD. In my opinion force represents one of the best value groups. Nearly all the tech of red with a slight weight increase and a large price drop.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:38 pm
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Location: Oregon, USA
I've ridden old Force a few times and found it is not as good as my Centuar/Chorus/Record 10s mix or my DA 9000 (sorry for the Shimano mention).

The hood shape of Campy is simply the best in terms of ergonomics and number of good hand positions. Overall the shift feel and performance of Campy is better than Force. However, I have the older Ultra Torque crank/bb, which is far better than Power Torque, and I have the older Skeleton brakes.

Unless you are making the jump to 11s, you should stick with Campy unless price, weight, or compatibility are the most important qualities to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Saying that Force isn't as good as DA9K is kind of a given...the current iteration of Force has been around for three years with only minor tweaks. DA9K is, by all accounts, the most advanced mechanical drivetrain to date.

Out of curiosity, is the problem you had with Force related to Sram in general--DoubleTap, loud mechanics, firm levers--or something else? At first I disliked the sound of gunfire coming from my shifters, but I've come to love the super positive shift feel. Shimano is much smoother, but also much less clear what you're doing (though that seems to have improved with DA9K).

Campy is so radically different from the others because of their bunny ears that it's tough to compare. On one hand, the hoods are crazy comfortable, on the other it's a real pain (and for some bars outright impossible) to shift from a sprint position in the drops. Having to hook the thumb up for shifting from the drops is rather uncomfortable in my book, so I tend to avoid the drops on my Record bike and stick to the hoods. On my Force bike, I spend most of the time on the hoods, but have no reservations about hitting the drops when the mood strikes me. Shimano's got that whole weird "oops I shifted while braking" thing, though I haven't ridden it enough to really comment there. Guess I need to start picking up DA9K components, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:39 pm 
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Location: England
I despise Shimano's shifters. I ride 15 year old Campag Mirage currently and it feels 100x better quality and shifts better than the 105 I have ridden on other people's bikes and test bikes. I just can't stand the floppy brake levers - it's just wrong.

I too cannot use the thumb shifters on my current bike when in the drops, but I have those stupid old shape bars as below.

As per modern kit, I simply cannot decide weather to go for the far superior SRAM shift lever feel or the Campag hood shape. They are equal drawing points.

Image

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"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


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 Post subject: Re: Force or Centaur?
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:39 pm 


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