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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:14 am 
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Location: Netherlands
And if i buy a motorbike, i would buy a ducati. I couldn't care less what country is the pioneer in motorbike, or the horsepower of the ducati versus a honda or if a bmw lasts longer. I would buy a ducati because it transmits that aura of italian, that something that can't be copied, because it's just plain imposible.

Spend a month travelling in italy, and then a month travelling in UK. Then come back and tell me that you want to buy a handmade frame, with that something else, and that you prefer the english one. guess what, it won't happen.

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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:14 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:20 am 
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kgt wrote:
Italian bicycles are not better or worst than others, but...
The "Ladri di biciclette" (Bicycle Thieves) is an italian movie. And that's for a reason.
The greatest cycling races are taking place in France, Italy and Belgium. That's for a reason as well.
Bicycle is a symbol for those countries and part of their economic, social and cultural history.
Some people (including me) are moved by those facts, others don't.


Touché.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:35 am 
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Liggero wrote:
dear prefendreu, i think you just didn't get the most important part, or you don't want to get it...


Dear Liggero,

Would you mind reading the post to which I was replying, then re-read my post carefully? I mean, afterall, you did quote it in its entirety so I assume you read it completely and clearly (which was really unnecessary and disappointingly inefficient), but it appears you didn't based off of your reply.

You'll find that I did in fact "get it" but continued to have a reasonable sense of balance and reality in reply to emotionally driven reasoning, while giving full recognition to some people's values in emotionally driven reasoning.

Again, read carefully. Also, my username really isn't that hard to spell. Clearly you can spell "touché" properly, what is so hard about spelling "prendrefeu" ?

Thanks!
:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:06 am 
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Location: Boulder, Colorado
For me there is no question that it would be a Pegoretti. For Ti, you can get a much better bike from any number of builders than the DeRosa.

If you want a bike with a soul, and you want it to be Italian, get a Pegoretti or get a Zullo. The Marcello is a bike that rides great when you push it, but you can ease back as well and still enjoy the ride. His Big Leg Emma you really want to go full-gas on. The Inqubo is the Zullo equivalent of those two, sort of. Those three bikes really influenced how I designed and built my own bike. In my opinion they offer a lot of the best of what steel is capable of.

If you want Ti skip the DeRosa, get an Erikson, a Mosaic, a Potts. Any one of those will out-Ti the DeRosa. And if you'd get it just because it's Italian, you would have been better off spending your money on a Pego or Zullo, because they are the better bike.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:20 am 
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Here then,is what I like from other lands. As a Brit, I like the new Jaguar F type, Royce hubs, Astons, Triumph's, McClarens, and H/made frame makers like Roberts, Feather etc. So, those other lands; I like Lynskey, IF, Baum, and many other H/made dudes. I don't like Trek. 3 of my alu hybrid frames cracked in short order and they put me on the blacklist. I like Look. Febrile carbon it might be, but they have style and beauty. I like Lightweight wheels. I like Rotor. I like Edge; is that Brit? I quite like DT Swiss. I like Dash, Ciamillo; nearly all the carbon hub dudes.

Granted there's only one groupset and wheel company that garners me coin, but it ain't only them. And yes I like Mavic. Nice top end there.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:02 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:

You'll find that I did in fact "get it" but continued to have a reasonable sense of balance and reality in reply to emotionally driven reasoning,


That's what the enlightened call "passion" :wink:

It's quite clear from you post that you simply don't "get" that prendrefeu - this surprises me given your artistic bent.

With Italian, you aren't buying into "prestige" - you are buying into a culture. A culture of passion. A form of passion I have not witnessed in any other country I have ridden in. A culture that extends way beyond carbon clinchers and Rapha. A culture that permeates throughout a nation. A culture of flamboyance.

If you refer to this passion and soul as "prestige", that suggests to me a person who knows that cost of everything and the value of nothing :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:05 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Liggero wrote:
dear prefendreu, i think you just didn't get the most important part, or you don't want to get it...


Dear Liggero,

Would you mind reading the post to which I was replying, then re-read my post carefully? I mean, afterall, you did quote it in its entirety so I assume you read it completely and clearly (which was really unnecessary and disappointingly inefficient), but it appears you didn't based off of your reply.

You'll find that I did in fact "get it" but continued to have a reasonable sense of balance and reality in reply to emotionally driven reasoning, while giving full recognition to some people's values in emotionally driven reasoning.

Again, read carefully. Also, my username really isn't that hard to spell. Clearly you can spell "touché" properly, what is so hard about spelling "prendrefeu" ?

Thanks!
:thumbup:


can't read it all man, i read just over it as it's too pretentious and boring to read it all. Get an easier name, like bobby or joe. Or better, John California. What do you think? I can spell John California anytime.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:10 am 
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Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
@airwise
I see how some people see "passion" - but I guess I just don't see it as being of anything unique to Italy, personally, because I was raised in an exceedingly passionate cultural background. Italians aren't the only ones known for "passion" you know. ;) Actually: just directly translate common sayings in Persian to English and you'll find enough passion to drown most hearts. So being raised with a passionate culture and heritage I may have a different perspective on how 'passion' is represented. That isn't to say Italy isn't lacking passion - it has it, for sure. I guess I just don't see it as anything, well, different from what I'm already used to. Exotic to some, not exotic to others. Like everything else: we have our opinions and perspectives.

So some see "passion" - awesome. Now OP find a frame that he wants and we're all settled then, no?

@ Liggero
If you call yourself Hansen Amsterdam then sure, we've got a deal. :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:07 am 
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Location: belgium
Lafolie wrote:
I have been hankering after an Italian hand made frame for ages. I have now narrowed my choice to either a De Rosa Titanio or a Pegoretti Marcelo. I would be grateful for some feedback on either or both frames. Many thanks.


I would love to have a 1994 De Rosa Titanio, more specifically one like ridden by the Gewiss team to victory in Milano-San Remo, Liege and the ridiculous 3-Gewiss-on-the-podium Fleche Wallonne that year.
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:38 am 
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Location: Geneva
If I was getting an Italian made titatium it'd be a Crisp...
http://www.crisptitanium.com/


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:15 pm 
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@ Pren

Nothing in your post suggests you "get it" or have any experience of Italy but as you say, let the OP get on with choosing a bike for all the right reasons :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
Liggero wrote:
btw, cinelli just became hipster crap, and this is not LA. No mash, no Rapha no San Francisco crap coffe cyclists, hipsters trendy new crap.


Uncalled-for...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:28 pm 
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the one i would buy:
http://www.pegoretticicli.com/frames/gr ... ius?page=2

@Pren
Jan Van Amsterdam is so much better.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Liggero wrote:
btw, cinelli just became hipster crap, and this is not LA. No mash, no Rapha no San Francisco crap coffe cyclists, hipsters trendy new crap.


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108352

Right.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:09 pm 
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:thumbup: :beerchug:
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:09 pm 


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