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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:06 am 
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That's what Veloflex's blurb says:

Quote:
Corsa 23
All-purpose open tubular that will give you more than you can expect from a clincher tyre. Built with the same 320 TPI casing of our tubular tyres for low rolling resistance and incredibly supple ride feelings. Suited for training and racing for everyone that wants the excellent characteristics of a tubular and the easiness of mounting of a clincher tyre. The special tread will grant outstanding grip and cornering stability in all weather conditions. Corsa models come with black coloured sidewalls for a more aggressive look and four colours of choice for the rubber tread.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 am 
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boolinwall wrote:
An open tubular as apposed to a clincher would be a tire with a high thread count cotton casing, with a glued on tread (so as not to effect the casing's feel) that would normally be sewn into a tubular. that has instead had it's edges folded around a bead to be used on clincher wheels. Clinchers tend to be lower thread count, nylon cased tires that have everything vulcanized together. And the two ride very differently.


Believe the marketing if wish.

There is NOTHING mutually exclusive about high thread count and a tyre being a clincher

All your describing is one way of making a clincher.

Latex inners make a difference, but that's another story.

BTW, is there any independent verification of the marketing threadcount claims?

Shouldn't surprise anyone that companies well known for tubulars try to dress their clinchers up as something special.

Guess what? It is clinched by the rim.


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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:17 am 
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Largely marketing but check the inside of open tubular type clinchers.....all folded over (over a kevlar bead usually) and glued c.f. looking at a 4000s. The design is different. It's still a clincher tho.....agreed. As far as I'm aware, only continental lie their asses off about thread count (they count all 3 plies and claim they have lots.....it's BS) but the rest are mostly legit re thread numbers at a quick eyeball-ometer glance.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:52 am 
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Hi,

Not just Conti:

Quote:
EPI: Ends Per Inch (Threads per Inch):
Unit for the density of the carcass fabric, measuring the number of nylon threads per square inch of casing material. The higher the EPI, the denser, more supple and lighter the casing is and thus the higher the quality of the tire. Lower EPI casing provides better puncture protection but makes for a stiffer and heavier tire.

The number stated here represents the EPI count for each individual layer in the three plies of casing. Other companies may give the total number of fabric threads of all layers in the casing construction.


From Schwalbe North America. The innuendo is obviously pointing at their direct competitor. Thing is all threads have two ends so I wonder how they actually count. Threads or ends?

Open tubulars are just clinchers derived from an existing tubular tyre design. Basically just marketing even though IMHO most so called "Open Tubulars" are among the better clinchers.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Funny that I haven't heard of any tubulars being marketed as closed clinchers.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:56 pm 
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LOL Hammertime!

I agree with you fdegrove.

For me this chestnut keeps getting re-heated by tubular wannabe riders who ride open tubulars, satisfying themselves they are not on clinchers.

Well, sorry lads, they're clinchers. And you've been sucked in.

Some of the tyres marketed as such test pretty well for crr, but that is a function of the threadcount, compound etc. also present in the tubular brother rather than any mysterious "openness". Likewise the relative performance of related tubulars and clinchers that don't affect "openness" in clincher format.

It would be easy to make a slow open tubular, I mean clincher.

Anyway I'm off to ride my closed clinchers.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:23 pm 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
Funny that I haven't heard of any tubulars being marketed as closed clinchers.

Sew-ups.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Open-ness or close-ness has little to do with the distinction other than semantically. It is more to do with the makeup of the casing, being like a tubular as the tread is attached to the cotton casing, or like a standard clincher where the rubber and casing are vulcanized and thus one piece.

Also, I don't think anyone who rides "open tubulars" is under the impression they aren't riding clinchers.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:46 pm 
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fa63 wrote:
HammerTime2 wrote:
Funny that I haven't heard of any tubulars being marketed as closed clinchers.

Sew-ups.
Yeah, tubulars are still often called sew-ups, at least in the U.S., anyway. Sew-ups, not closed clinchers.

Maybe those fancy expensive clinchers should be called non-sewn-up sew-ups.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:46 pm 
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sawyer wrote:

BTW, is there any independent verification of the marketing threadcount claims?


Hmmmm, I can only imagine the outrage of misstated threadcounts in bike tires.
(watch out for swearing if you're sensitive)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Fair enough boolinwall, I'm all for quality tyres, but it's still an oxymoron :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:20 pm 
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NGMN you made my day :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:23 pm 
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btompkins0112 wrote:


Also, I don't think anyone who rides "open tubulars" is under the impression they aren't riding clinchers.


Well, given another member's post in this thread began:

"An open tubular as apposed [sic] to a clincher ..."

I'd have to disagree.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:40 am 
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Hi,

HammerTime2 wrote:
Funny that I haven't heard of any tubulars being marketed as closed clinchers.


What came first, tubulars or clinchers?
First came clever engineering, after that we endured greedy marketeering, Mr. Hammertime.

That said, tubulars just don't need marketing.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:13 am 
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I certainly notice a difference when riding a high thread count clincher with no vulcanizing. And no,, I don't pretend I'm on tubulars. I'm fully aware of how much better still a well made tubular is.
I'm sorry if you can't afford good tires, or your riding ability doesn't allow you to tell the difference between good and bad ones. Or more likely the case. You've never actually ridden good tires, but still feel you have a definitive opinion on them. That doesn't mean you're entitled to trash my opinion for no reason other than to justify your own choices.


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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:13 am 


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