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Which would you pick?
Cervelo RCA 40%  40%  [ 49 ]
Trek Madone 7 VaporWeight 18%  18%  [ 22 ]
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Black 43%  43%  [ 53 ]
Total votes : 124
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:49 pm 
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what crankset are you planning on using?

shimano/campy the madone vapor will be closer in weight to the rca.

madone only requires bearings as the cups are molded. ~50gm
cervelo rca require the heavy rotor bbright pressfit bearing ~ 110gm.
cannondale press fit bb ~90gm

pic of a roadbikereview member's madone ~12lbs. replace the heavy crank could rival sedluks cervelo

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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:49 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:57 am 
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One of those frames doesn't even belong in the same sentence as the others.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:27 am 
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The Cervelo Rca does not come with a crankset. The Slipstream team always seems to build their Cervelo’s with Rotor cranks but they have a 15 lbs weight limit and maybe they get a good deal for advertising. The Rca includes a Rotor BB, it is the heaviest BB you can install in a Cervelo. I assume that most people will place their Rotor BB on eBay and buy a lighter one. THM 91 grams, SRAM is 82 grams


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:12 am 
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I would go the RCA if cost wasn't an object. I have an evo and it is a great riding frame. Haven't ridden the new madone, but by all accounts it is a nice frame. I understand some people wanting an independant to build their frame, and thats fine, but to say that a single man operation tube to tube build is going to be better than a "superbike" built by companies that spend more in R+D every day then any independant has ever spent in the history of their company is ridiculous. They don't have access to special carbon cloth or resins, if they make a lighter tube to tube frame than a high end monocoque, then i can almost guarantee it will be less stiff and more fragile.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:20 am 
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Just my opinion, but if it's my money it's going to be the EVO. Price and geometry being the biggest factors.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:49 am 
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Hi guys,

Don't want to hijack the thread but as we're mentioned here I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths.

As much as we admire the RCa and consider it to be a benchmark product, they do not have access to any carbon prepreg or resin systems we don't - as a matter of fact I'd wager it's the other way around.

As far as aerodynamics go, CFD software with over 100 million nodes is now becoming available to a wider audience, the trick is what you do with it..
Our aero work is done at Lotus F1 by aerodynamicist Nick Hales. We feel their knowledge and resources measure up to most cycling companies.

Lastly on monocoques versus tube to tube: please note that neither the RCa nor the Trek nor Cannondale are true monocoques.
They are 'multi-coques' where the main frame is assembled from different pieces and glued into a separate bb piece.
Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.

/a

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:40 pm 
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As you know andy2 these three companies spend big amounts for marketing, pro team sponsoring etc which you don't. So even if you have a better product these have an (unfair maybe) advantage.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
andy2 wrote:
Hi guys,

Don't want to hijack the thread but as we're mentioned here I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths.

As much as we admire the RCa and consider it to be a benchmark product, they do not have access to any carbon prepreg or resin systems we don't - as a matter of fact I'd wager it's the other way around.

As far as aerodynamics go, CFD software with over 100 million nodes is now becoming available to a wider audience, the trick is what you do with it..
Our aero work is done at Lotus F1 by aerodynamicist Nick Hales. We feel their knowledge and resources measure up to most cycling companies.

Lastly on monocoques versus tube to tube: please note that neither the RCa nor the Trek nor Cannondale are true monocoques.
They are 'multi-coques' where the main frame is assembled from different pieces and glued into a separate bb piece.
Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.

/a


I would disagree with you suggesting to have access to more advanced composites than Criterion Composites. At best the composites you have access to are on the same level. Considering how much strength testing big companies do, how does the A2J compare?

As with regards to aerodynamics, bike specific experience has many perks as there are tricks that are learned over the years. With bike specific code and hundreds of wind tunnel tests and refined testing procedure, you get direct data correlation to other bikes made and to the CFD model. Not just with the bike, but with rider, wheels, components, and cables. Everything must be simulated as a system accurately, and at yaw. It's obviously not about the processing power anymore, the correlation (to real world data collection, and to tunnel) is everything, and that is still something that F1 teams have trouble with. This is a different Reynold's number than F1. Cervelo has pushed longer than most in the aero bike game, and independent tests have shone that their aero bikes do deliver (and often more than other companies).

You make an AMAZING product which is fully custom and thus has potential to go beyond a "production R&D prototype" RCA which is made to trickle the tech down to the other bikes in the range. If the RCA was fully custom, I reckon they could get the weight for some people under 600 grams. But then I'm not sure it would meet Cervelo's strength testing


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Justkeep, our engineers come from a hypercar and aerospace background and our main business is engineering consultancy for the big names in the bicycle industry. We are eminently aware of the difference between bikes and F1 cars, as are Lotus btwy;).

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:50 pm 
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:P As a burgeoning aerospace engineer, I can understand where you are coming from. Not all aero is made equal :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:52 pm 
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We're hiring!!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
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andy2 wrote:

Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.



As far as I know, R5 / R5Ca's entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout..... R3 is a different story (BB shell bonded later).


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:30 pm 
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You're right the RCA is a monocoque mainframe w the chainstays and seatstays bonded in later.
This requires great skill and care!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:03 am 
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I have a Madone 7 on order and it's not the Vapor. I don't know if it's due to conditions in the Seattle area or what, but all of my bikes have multiple rock chips on the chainstays. My current Madone 6 has about half a dozen of them, paint-deep. If it weren't for the paint protection, they'd be nicking the carbon layup. Sure, you could wrap the chainstays in clear plastic but that's ugly and costs a few grams. Maybe not as much as the paint, who knows. How much is the frame gonna weigh after it gets back from Calfee with a repair patch in place? Durability has to count for something, or else we'd all save weight by leaving the grease out of the headset :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:28 am 
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Received word back from the LBS here in Australia. six to eight week wait for the RCA frameset and $11,000 AU. I still can't believe they market this thing with the heavy Rotor gear!


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Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:28 am 


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