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 Post subject: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:38 pm 
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I’m in somewhat of a dilemma. In the very near future I’m going to buy my wife a new CAAD10 Women’s to replace her Synapse Feminine. She’s about 5’4” and her current bike is a 51cm which fits her perfectly. I’d like to surprise her with the new bike but want to make sure I get her the correct size. Looking at the specs the 51 CAAD10 and 51 Synapse look very similar, but I’m not 100% sure and want to make sure before i spend a few grand. I plan to get her the CAAD10 Women’s 3 Ultegra and replace the Ultegra brakes, shifters and derailleurs with the SRAM Red – Black Edition components off her Synapse. Below are the specs of each. Thanks for any advice

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:44 pm 
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The Synapse's geometry will be more relaxed, but the fit should be spot on--and if it's not perfectly exact, that's why saddles/seatposts adjust and spacers exist!

Generally speaking, measurements tend to be pretty consistent across bikes, and within the same manufacturer you can count on a 51 always being the same size. I've never have a problem blind-buying a 56 frame, and have only ever had to put a longer stem on once. This is across four manufacturers and fifteen years, too!

You might be able to mention this to the bike shop, too. They usually have a 15-day return window, and will most certainly let you exchange for a size up or down.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:44 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
Watch out for the Caad10 having a steeper STA - could complicate saddle position. 51 Caad10 would match position with 15mm more spacers but same length stem. If she has a reasonable length stem and isn't slammed on the Synapse - 54 Caad10 would match with 7mm fewer spacers and 10mm shorter stem. Plus slacker STA may allow lighter seatpost.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:12 pm 
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thanks very much for the info. her Synapse currently has a 95mm stem and 5mm of spacers, so it sounds like i'll be good with a 51 using her current bar and stem and just add 10-15mm more of spacers.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to just get the frame and swop components from her Synapse, or can you not get the frame on it's own? Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Though on the other hand, he can just do a full swap of the components and have a Red Black CAAD10 and Ultegra Synapse. Then she either has two bikes, or they can sell the Ultegra Synapse much more easily than just a Synapse frame.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:23 pm 
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yes i have already asked the dealer if he can get this exact bike as a frame and fork, he's checking, if not i'll get the complete and at that time decide what works better. parting it out of selling as a complete. only thing i'd be missing is cranks. her synapse has rival cranks, some might not like ultergra with rival cranks


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:45 am 
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When you combine the steeper seat tube angle with the shorter head tube on the Caad 10 you end up with a longer reach. If your wife is already at her limit for reach on the Synapse than the Caad may not work. This is the fundamental issue IMO. If she already has a short (80 mm) stem on the Synapse you will have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:10 am 
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Umm...not really? Both angles increase by .5 degrees, with the seat actually moving slightly further forward than the handlebars. This actually makes the reach marginally shorter, and the 3mm drop from the headtube length brings it back to almost exactly the same reach. The only difference is that the CAAD10s riding position will be shifted forward at the ass and down at the hands, making it slightly more aggressive without changing the overall fit.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:07 am 
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Last edited by Tenlegs on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:14 pm 
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We must be looking at different figures. The ones I see here say that, yes, the head tube is .5 of a degree steeper which will increase the reach. It also says that the seat tube is .5 of a degree steeper which will decrease the reach. "O" on the chart is the horizontal difference between the BB and steerer, and is called "reach", but isn't the "reach" that you feel when sitting on the bike. Also, it's 4mm different...

Anyway, instead of talking in numbers and whatnot, how about we just look at these two bikes on top of each other and see exactly where the difference is?

Image

The CAAD10 is in blue, the Synapse is in red. You'll note that the Synapse actually has a longer reach from the saddle to the handlebars than than the CAAD10 does, with the CAAD10's bars being slightly lower. You'll also note that the difference in shape between Shimano and Sram hoods, along with their angle on the handlebars makes a huge difference in fit. It's the reach from the saddle to the handlebars that determines how well the bike corresponds to a person's upper body, not the horizontal distance from the BB to HT.

Conclusion: These bikes are the same size and will fit the same size person, just with a more aggressive position. It may require a cm or so difference in stem length, a 5mm spacer, and some fore/aft saddle adjustment, but this bike will fit her just fine. The difference between these two bikes is less about geometry and more about frame shape/design. The CAAD10 is a crit bike, with straight, oversized aluminum tubes to make it as stiff as possible, which also makes it rather unforgiving on the road. The Synapse is an endurance bike with seatstays, chainstays, seatpost, and fork designed specifically for compliance. The CAAD10 will sit more aggressive and ride faster, but the ride will be much rougher than on the Synapse. That's the only difference that she will notice.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Last edited by Tenlegs on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:49 pm 
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sigismond0 wrote:
We must be looking at different figures. The ones I see here say that, yes, the head tube is .5 of a degree steeper which will increase the reach. It also says that the seat tube is .5 of a degree steeper which will decrease the reach. "O" on the chart is the horizontal difference between the BB and steerer, and is called "reach", but isn't the "reach" that you feel when sitting on the bike. Also, it's 4mm different...
To the bolded, only if you're slapdash and omit setting the saddle to the same setback position relative to the BB. As for the 4mm difference in horizontal reach, careful choice of bars can eliminate this without going to the next size of stem which is likely to mean a shorter reach by approximately 5mm.
Quote:
Conclusion: These bikes are the same size and will fit the same size person, just with a more aggressive position. It may require a cm or so difference in stem length, a 5mm spacer, and some fore/aft saddle adjustment, but this bike will fit her just fine. The difference between these two bikes is less about geometry and more about frame shape/design. The CAAD10 is a crit bike, with straight, oversized aluminum tubes to make it as stiff as possible, which also makes it rather unforgiving on the road. The Synapse is an endurance bike with seatstays, chainstays, seatpost, and fork designed specifically for compliance. The CAAD10 will sit more aggressive and ride faster, but the ride will be much rougher than on the Synapse. That's the only difference that she will notice.
Bearing in mind the HTA, fork rake & bb heights are identical there will be hardly any discernible difference in speed other than perhaps on climbs. As for the ride quality, the CAAD10 frame is one of the smoothest alloy frames out there, plus it has a full carbon fork rather than the alloy steerered Synapse one.


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:52 pm 
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sigismond0 wrote:
Umm...not really? Both angles increase by .5 degrees, with the seat actually moving slightly further forward than the handlebars. This actually makes the reach marginally shorter, and the 3mm drop from the headtube length brings it back to almost exactly the same reach. The only difference is that the CAAD10s riding position will be shifted forward at the ass and down at the hands, making it slightly more aggressive without changing the overall fit.


Just to echo what others are saying about longer reach: The reason is that we all assume the most important aspect of the fitting is the relationship between hips and pedals. In other words: keeping the saddle in the same position relative to the bottom bracket on the Caad will mean that the bars will be further away. (And super short stems suck - not a good fix IMO).

Of course it is entirely possible that the fine lady may be better off pushed further forward - but that is another issue.

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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:52 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: CAAD10 Women’s
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:57 pm 
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Mr.Gib wrote:
sigismond0 wrote:
Umm...not really? Both angles increase by .5 degrees, with the seat actually moving slightly further forward than the handlebars. This actually makes the reach marginally shorter, and the 3mm drop from the headtube length brings it back to almost exactly the same reach. The only difference is that the CAAD10s riding position will be shifted forward at the ass and down at the hands, making it slightly more aggressive without changing the overall fit.


Just to echo what others are saying about longer reach: The reason is that we all assume the most important aspect of the fitting is the relationship between hips and pedals. In other words: keeping the saddle in the same position relative to the bottom bracket on the Caad will mean that the bars will be further away. (And super short stems suck - not a good fix IMO).

Of course it is entirely possible that the fine lady may be better off pushed further forward - but that is another issue.

That is why reach & stack are a far more useful pair of tools. The bars can only be moved in increments of 10mm and bar reaches similarly vary by fixed amounts, assuming you are happy to change models. The saddle on the other hand can be slid backwards or forwards without increment, allowing the variance in STA to be eliminated.


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