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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:03 am
Posts: 31
prendrefeu wrote:
OH please let that last link be true.

Hydraulic shifting???
Be still my beating heart. :shock:

:mrgreen:

I was told on friday that the 11 speed red, titled "22", will be offered with a Hydraulic option


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 383
They seem to struggle to fit a master cylinder for brakes into the shifter. I am intrigued as to how they'll fit two master cylinders?


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:39 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 7:13 am
Posts: 1536
geedawg wrote:
So super naive question. . .I've never used hydraulic brakes. Is there that much of a performance upgrade over cables with hydraulics, other than the initial cable stretch? Same with potential hydraulic shifting? I can't imagine the system would be any lighter, either.


I haven't gotten to try hyrdaulic rim brakes yet but word is from the Magura TT system that the power and modulation is improved but there is also cleaner routing of cables and the power and modulation are unaffected by tight bends in routing required for aero bikes with hidden brakes.

Its another way to open up integration and improve aerodynamics.


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Acros has hydraulic shifting. It can be lighter, mostly because the lines are lighter than steel cables in steel reinforced housing.

But I don't think Sram 11 will have hydraulic shifting. That's going too far for the market at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 8335
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
@geedawg

Hydraulic shifting/braking:
-Super durable, virtually no maintenance. Probably less maintenance than electronic, actually! You'll only need to bleed the system once per year, which is a quick procedure.
-No cable stretch. Set it once and forget it... all year long.
-System is lighter - hydraulic lines (with fluid) are lighter than housing + cable, less moving parts in derailleurs also makes them a bit lighter (at least it did on Acros' hydraulic system)
-No fade. A cable actuated brake will have a fade in power, a hydraulic won't.
-Smaller points of entry for hydraulic lines into components makes their envelope smaller (and hence, in a sense more aero) (except for the lever, which isn't as crazy big as the pictures make it look but still could use a bit of revision in future runs)

@eric
We can hope though. Where's that hopeful, daydreaming smiley face when I need it?

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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:07 am
Posts: 164
@prend, thanks! get more edu-ma-cated every day


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:33 pm
Posts: 167
Of course for every upside their is a downside. You don't get as much fade with hydraulic brakes but you can get vapor lock if the system heats up. But overall i think hydraulic has some possible upside. Word on the street is the new 11sp red will have a hydraulic brake option but not shifting.

As far as the 2 largish master cylindars, nothing says they have to be at a terminal end they can go anywhere with the proper development


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
> A cable actuated brake will have a fade in power, a hydraulic won't.

Fade comes from the brake pad overheating. A hydraulic disc can have better leverage than cable, allowing it to use a higher temp but harder pad compound that fades at a higher temperature. A hydraulic brake can also fade if the fluid overheats and starts boiling. That is often the cause of fade on cars and motorcycles.

I would not say that using hydraulics makes a brake impervious to fade.

Here's a good article on bike disc brake fade and road bike disc brake design: http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/02/14/roa ... they-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:25 am
Posts: 151
Location: MN
styrrell wrote:
Word on the street is the new 11sp red will have a hydraulic brake option but not shifting.


That is the exact opposite of what I'm wishing for. I sincerely hope if they go with hydraulic shifting they don't lock everyone in to their brakes as well, as great as I'm sure they'd be.


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:07 am
Posts: 91
email today seemed pretty legit to me.


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:06 pm
Posts: 978
Location: Melbourne, Australia
No one's mentioned the leaked photo still has a cable clamp bolt on the '2014 hydro rear derailleur'...which tells us someone's playing with photoshop.

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Last edited by grover on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1839
Location: Sydney, Aus.
grover wrote:
leaked photo

Do share... :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:06 pm
Posts: 978
Location: Melbourne, Australia
"leaked photo" aka photoshop job is on first page, privateer posted it from the newsbike.com link earlier...which was originally posted on April 1 :wink:

What I know
11 speed is coming this year - '22' is the marketing, they believe shimano/campag groups can't be ridden in all 22 gears while their group can...hence true 22 speed
is it mechanical/hydro/electronic? you'll know soon enough.

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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:39 am
Posts: 545
Location: Belgium
A few days ago I was reading my old cycling magazines and one issue (should be an early 90's edition) covered a new mech sytem that contained the index system in the rear mech in stead of the shifter. So cable stretch couldn't influence the performance. Why didn't anyone developed this further? To me it seems a good solution for quick shifting with high precision.

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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:30 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: SRAM 11 Speed?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Shop Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 722
Cable systems are a thing of the past. In 20 years, the only cable systems are going to be the cheaper groupsets. There is no reason to invest money/time in a system that is very slowly going out.

As for fade with rim brakes, not going to happen. The slave cylinder is so far from the source of the heat, you're going to have much more to worry about that that.


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