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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:36 am
Posts: 63
@Permon I think I know what you're talking about.
I have done a 20km ride with the R5 and I can confirm the same issues as you are describing.
The headtube+fork is stiff, the BB and the rear triangle is stiff but everything in between is not.
I'm even taller than you (190cm) and I think this problem is present only on larger frames + taller riders.
I use cannondale Evo and it's much stiffer (at least on the FE).
Recently I've got another R5 in my hands and it was the same so I don't believe it's a quality issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:17 pm
Posts: 23
The difference between just the frame sets is a little over a full pound. Pinarello's published weights are misleading because they are for an unpainted frame without all the hardware (shell for BB, bosses for cages, etc.). Depending on the specific size, it's about 500g. You also get some extra weight between the forks too.[/quote]

it didn't seem to be this big of a difference. I tested 2 58cms back to back. the R5 had mechanical DA so I am guessing the weight difference is not a large as below but who knows? based on my initial rides I definitely wanted the Dogma but it felt so solid I was afraid the difference would be 2+lbs!

rode the R5 dura ace 58cm zipp 202s look pedals 14.7 lbs

dogma 65.1 Campy SR elec 57.5cm, zipp 202s look pedals 15.5 lbs. I dont know how much Sram Rd would save?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Posts: 1168
Location: Canada
Wow. Very ironic that on WW some of us have convinced ourselves that heavier is better.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
Hi,

YES, this thread again:-)
Meantime I changed the FSA stem for 3T Team Stealth. The 3T stem is stiffer and it helped the bike to behave better. :thumbup:

Today I disassembled the headset/fork and checked the fork and frame.
The fork looks OK to me. But I see some strange "cracks" at the area of lower bearings, at the connection of downtube and headtube). No cracks from the outside (the paint finish does not show any cracks).
To me, those are some cracks but at this moment it looks like some cracks of "finish" not a structural....whatever, the cracks had to develop somehow.
What do you think guys?
LBS told me it is there from a production.....

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:29 pm
Posts: 39
Maybe send those photos to Cervelo? Or at least on their forum? With the best will in the world, I can't imagine that any LBS knows all the details of a manufacturer's production techniques, and I'd want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

By the way, neither the R3 I rode for a year nor the R5 I just started riding have ever felt anything but solid and accurate through the front end.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm
Posts: 223
Pretty sure those are just the different plys/layers of carbon...and the "cracks" you think you see are just the edges of each carbon layer stacked on another, and that long vertical "crack" is just where they meet as they wrap around plus some excess resin. They just aren't sanded down to look good because there is no point/many customers wont look inside the frame. Many frames look like this on the inside.

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1318
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Looks like a standard internal moulding excess to me. Shouldn't be any problems.

Told you the FSA stem was a piece of junk :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2193
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
The layers of CF there are totally normal. In fact the inside of that head tube looks better than most frames I have seen. It's a complex shape and making an internal mold for it is more difficult than with single tubes.

However the bearing race seat has some marks on it that look like the headset may have been loose. Is it possible that the wrong type of headset was used and it fit loosely? There are many standards of headset bearings and some are close but not quite right.


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 Post subject: Is Cervelo R5 a noodle?
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Posts: 2690
Location: Mississippi
I would be much more concerned about the marks on the bearing seat....looks like the wrong bearing, or a poorly adjusted headset is to blame.....have I heard that somewhere before??

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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
eric wrote:
However the bearing race seat has some marks on it that look like the headset may have been loose. Is it possible that the wrong type of headset was used and it fit loosely? There are many standards of headset bearings and some are close but not quite right.


Hello, what marks do You mean? Which picture and where? I did not see any by eye....I think it only looks like that because of camera's flash light.... (?)
Original headset which came with the frameset was used (FSA).
The headset has always been adjusted properly, no play.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
btompkins0112 wrote:
I would be much more concerned about the marks on the bearing seat....looks like the wrong bearing, or a poorly adjusted headset is to blame.....have I heard that somewhere before??


I wrote it at least 6times and will repeat it for the 7th time especially for You:
THE HEADSET HAS BEEN SET PROPERLLY. NOT A MINOR SIGN OF ANY PLAY IN THE SYSTEM.
GOT IT? :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2193
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
They show clearest in the 2nd pic. Look at the bottom of the race. What appears to be gouges or marks on the side toward the back of the bike. It could be nothing, or they could not affect the bearing seating.

I'd double check the headset bearing to make sure it's the right type for the frame. It's probably the right one but mistakes do happen- I have gotten mis-marked parts directly from the manufacturer.

From your description there is a good chance that there is something wrong with the bike parts or their installation or adjustment. It's also possible that the frame is defective. But it's probably not the frame as designed since you seem to be the only person with this kind of problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 640
Hello guys!

I have a feeling like bringing new life to this thread! I know you loved it! :twisted:

I am the OP of this thread. When I bought the R5 VWD, I was quite dissapointed about the lack of stiffness at the front end (that is why I started the thread).

At first thank You for the inputs and tips how to improve the situation.

I would like to report the current situation.

I have always been a Cervelo fan (I have had 3 Cervelos), so I was trying to find a solution.
Also, after 9500km on the R5 I lost approx 9kg...(read more later).

Now I am going to make a list of actions taken and their impacts on the R5 behaviour:

- changed and re-set the headset bearings: no affect

- bought 3T ARX stem: helped the stiffness and handling

- bought 3 Ergonova PRO handebars (Aluminium): helped the stiffness and handling. The FSA handlebars previously used were like springs, which made the ride more comfy, but under load/cornering it was making the handling unprecise and creating feeling of unstability. 3T changed teh situation quite a bit. (on the other hand, the FSA was better ergonomically)

- set my saddle differently: not levelled, the nose of the saddle is like 2mm lower than the rear part of the saddle. The S-works saddle is really stiff at the nose, so I was trying push back on the saddle.....moving my weight back. It probably resulted in less weight at the front end of the bike. This change in setting made HUGE impact on the handling! I was amazed about the change!

- lost 9kg: my lower weight has a HUGE impact on the handling! The bike got so much better just because of my lower weight! So, it looks like Cervelo designs its bikes for racers, lightweight guys :idea: Not people like me (winter weight 96kg, height 186cm), Now, being 87kg, the bike feels just OK!

All of this changed the situation and my feellings from the bike.
I would not say the R5 is noodle at this moment.
At this moment, it is a stiff bike.... stiff one, but still the Dogma is at a different level.
Situation changed:
FROM:
R5 noodle vs. Dogma stiff

TO:
R5 stiff vs. Dogma superstiff.


Which is something I can live with.

Important is that now I enjoy the ride. At the beggining of the year, I was suffering, it was painful to have a high rated top frame which felt like a noodle.

So, finally I am happy with the R5 :beerchug:
It took its time :mrgreen:

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Austin, TX
Well I for one am glad you found peace with the R5 my Czech brother. If I could make make one more observation, you should mount your tires with the label centered over the valve stems facing the drive side. While it won't affect the stiffness of your ride it is the right thing to do. Campy looks great on the bike btw. Good looking bike!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5334
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
I have not much to say other than noting that in a little over 5 months, the OP has gained 1 cm in height and 4 kg in winter weight*

* while actually losing 9 kg over the same period

On March 27, 2013 in the opening post of this thread, Permon wrote:
I am 185cm high, 92kg (winter weight).
on September 3, 2013, Permon wrote:
winter weight 96kg, height 186cm


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