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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Posts: 239
Considering this for a new Sworks Tarmac build, and I currently have Di2 9070 on my 'normal' Sworks Tarmac.

I can't wait for 9100, so it's between 9070 and Etap.

This is what I'm hearing on ETAP

1. Intuitive shifter button system that everyone seems to like.
2. No wires, nice and easy to install
3. No front mech trim - seems odd to not do this when with electronic shifting it's a no brainer. OK so there is the Yaw thing going on, but still....
4. Slow rear shifts - some say so, others don't, but I want my rear shifts as fast as possible.
5. Noisier shifts - I prefer quiet ones.
6. Needs adjustment more often? Di2 stays rocks solid, but have heard some occasional adjustment is required for Etap.

Price ; Etap is a bit more expensive than 9070.

It's a tricky decision!

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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:42 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:27 pm 
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Posts: 821
somesay : front mech finicky, and dropped chain on outside common (if not adjust perfectly)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Posts: 5319
Location: Bay Area
Setup the front mech like any other Yaw der and it's great.

I was one of the first consumers to get eTap and took a big risk I guess, but with that said, it's been flawless. Sram Red 22 chain was a bit loud for my liking and there was the front limit screw issue, but I haven't adjusted it once since putting it back on my present frame in March. I left that bike sitting for almost a month, didn't charge the batteries and they were still full.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 936
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
fitted mine in mid-march, still enjoying it, especially the absence of cables!

not found any need to adjust
shifting speed is fine
battery life is excellent

getting the fd set-up right was fiddly (praxis works rings on an old 10-speed srm/sram red crankset), and i had the issue with the limit screw

only other quibble is i see what looks like slight corrosion/pitting on the bit that connects the fd cage to the pivots, not what i expect from this level of component, i posted about it in the big etap thread but no one else mentioned it so maybe it's a qc/isolated issue

btw i had some old ti ceramic speed jockey wheels on my old rd, recently transferred them to the etap rd (the etap ones had been caked in some sticky fibrous cack from the trees and need a real deep clean), shifting is still perfect though they are noisier, in two minds whether to switch back


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am
Posts: 563
Just started using etap so can't comment on the medium-long term aspects. However I have found it to be quite noisy when used in conjunction with the standard Red chainset. Rear changing is also fairly clunky and definitely slower than EPS which I've been using on my race bike for over a year. Additionally I haven't been too impressed with the derailleur battery life although charging is a very straightforward process. With regard to the lack of front derailleur trim I would agree that if the mech is properly set up this shouldn't be a problem.

The system is quite easy to install and the lack of potentially rattling internal cables is a godsend. Still etap hasn't really set my world on fire and I might still be tempted to flog it, to be replaced with Campag Super Record. We'll see....

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:49 pm
Posts: 12
Have them on my bike for half a year now, maintenance free, shifts better than the EPS SR on my other bike (to the extent I am wondering if I should swap over from Campa). Rode route of the TdF Pyrenees to Jura with it, didnt miss one shift, forgot to take batteries off before sending the bike out, didnt have to charge once. Can only recommend highly.
Florian


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am
Posts: 506
KWalker wrote:
I left that bike sitting for almost a month, didn't charge the batteries and they were still full.


I haven't charged my Di2 7970 battery since winter 2014/15. It still shifts just fine. Might charge it this winter as a precaution. Di2 battery is the "big" battery under the downtube bottle cage. Not individual in each component. Batteries should never ever be an issue on electronic shifting bikes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
I've been riding it now since March I think. Coming from SRAM Red 10sp with iLinks and internally routed bars (important notation) to eTap, it was a revelation. However, after spending time with Rival 22 (and stock cables) and now Campy Super Record (with iLinks again), it's lost some of its shine. Don't get me wrong, it works very well (I haven't had any of the issues that people have mentioned), but I think I mostly like it now because it appeals to my inner laziness. I liken it to having a car with a wireless keyfob (the kind that unlock the door when near and allow for push start ignition).

They did do some notable changes though for eTap to the shifters that I prefer over the previous generation: slimmer bodies, wider brake lever and brake lever return spring. All of those improve the feel and interaction with the system but I believe that's also in the latest mechanical version.

The shifting of mechanical Campy though has been a treat...it's just those damn hoods.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am
Posts: 513
Zero problems in 5 months, on a Sram Red etap crank with Red 52-36 and now Praxis Buzz 50-34 rings. Front upshifts are occasionally noisy but have always been on target.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1839
Location: Sydney, Aus.
It's awesome.

Yes, the rear shift *is* slow. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't have their other stuff setup right. However, it is not 'problem slow'. It's only noticeable when you go back to Di2. Enough people have commented about it that I believe this will form part of a firmware update at some stage (I'm only speculating / hoping, though).

For me, the deal-clincher was being relieved to be back on eTap after briefly going back to my Di2 bike - and that is despite previously having preferred the Di2 lever shape. I now plan to change my Di2 bike to eTap too.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:13 am 
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Posts: 239
Thanks for the feedback, although the waters are still slightly muddied, and no clear winner emerges still (for me at least).

My reasoning so far is;

1. Go with what you know - I have had 9070 for almost 2 years now, and I can't fault it.
2. 9070 is cheaper than Etap.
3. Any suggestion of slower cassette shifts freaks me out. It needs to be as fast as possible for me to be happy.
4. I still don't get the front trim thing - by not trimming the front mech cage needs to be wider apart, which can slow shifts. Given that electronic shifting is perfect for auto-trim, I wonder why SRAM don't do it. Maybe the front mech can't 'talk' to the rear mech?
5. I like the ease of not having cables, but I'm wary of wireless stuff - maybe I'm just an oldie, but I seem to have constant issues with Bluetooth in the car, with speakers, etc. etc.

So I guess I'm leaning towards 9070; the new 9100 mechs look nice - smaller and more compact, and I could upgrade the 9070 ones when these come out.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:59 pm
Posts: 189
I run SRAM 22, and it does seem you are confused on the trim issue. Essentially, once set up, the front DR needs no trim. In fact due to the pivot of the cage you can actually run extreme gear combos.

Forget about trim. Once set up well it's unnecessary FOR SRAM 22.

To he honest though it sounds as if your mind is made up..?

Sent from my 6039Y using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:54 am 
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Posts: 239
MikeyBE wrote:
I run SRAM 22, and it does seem you are confused on the trim issue. Essentially, once set up, the front DR needs no trim. In fact due to the pivot of the cage you can actually run extreme gear combos.

Forget about trim. Once set up well it's unnecessary FOR SRAM 22.

To he honest though it sounds as if your mind is made up..?

Sent from my 6039Y using Tapatalk


I guess I was always leaning towards Di2, but I'm intrigued and tempted by ETAP - if I could get a deal at the same price as 9070, it would be a close call.

I totally 'get' the yaw thing, but surely some compromise is being made to enable the front mech to not need trimming. Presumably, the closer together the front mech plates, the less throw you need at the lever to make a front shift, and the stiffer and lighter the cage. Or did Shimano just drop the ball on this one for 10 years plus?! (Honest question!)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:59 pm
Posts: 189
Sorry - my mistake. My bikes are Campag and SRAM - I can't really chime in on how Shimano compares. What I can say is that I now find trimming annoying! From my experience, my force 22 shiftier and front DR shifts like a dream on my SiSL2 chainset.

I am considering eTap myself, I'd love to go Di2 or EPS, but all my road bikes are externally cabled... :(


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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:05 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1839
Location: Sydney, Aus.
cyclespeed wrote:
I totally 'get' the yaw thing, but surely some compromise is being made to enable the front mech to not need trimming. Presumably, the closer together the front mech plates, the less throw you need at the lever to make a front shift, and the stiffer and lighter the cage.

If you think the SRAM front mech plates are further apart, then you don't "get" the yaw thing at all. Yaw uses angles to achieve full cassette coverage from each chainring, not plate width. There is zero issue with the front mech shift speed on eTap.

You're over-thinking the 'slow' shift too - it's marginally slower than Di2, that's all. It really is not a problem.

My eTap shift kit was about the same price as a 9070 Di2 shift kit, FWIW.


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