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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Canada (BC) (formerly F, D and CH)
Hi,

I moved last year from Europe/ Switzerland to Vancouver/ Canada and I discovered a very different weather for road biking over here: The winter is long :x and very rainy :( . The Spring and the Autumn are often rainy :( . The summer is let’s say less rainy :x

Before I always rode my Colnago C60 Super Record mech. with LW Meilenstein :thumbup: and for the (quite rare) rainy days I rode my home trainer or occasionally my 25 y.o. Colnago Dream Aluminum 8 speed DA. with Mavic Ksyrium. Actually a nice bike but in comparison to my C60 you can definitely feel the difference of 25 years :mrgreen:

But over here I rode exclusively my 25 y.o bike with SKS fenders in the last winter (from October until now!) because the group ride has a mandatory fender regulation. The 4-5 hours group rides under the rain (and with the dirt on the side of the roads) will not have been good for my Colnago C60/ LW Meilenstein.

The summer is now coming but I was told that the summer is still quite rainy.

In order to face this new (weather) situation, I have decided:

1/ to use my Colnago C60 in the days with only some showers also. For that purpose I bought another wheelset (Bora 50 Ultra) that I can use instead of my LW Meilenstein (I also have a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero Nite for the C60 when I do much of hills and don’t want carbon clinchers).

2/ to “upgrade” my 25 y.o. Colnago Dream Aluminum with some new wheelsets (Bora 50 One/ Fulcrum Racing Zero) that I can use in the rainy days in the summer so that I have the feeling to have a nicer and newer bike and not being obliged to use my C60 in a 4-6 hours ride on a rainy day (I also have a Fulcrum Racing Quattro CX as replacement for my old Mavic Ksyrium wheelset for next winter)


But my other thinking :P is also as follows:
1/ Keeping my C60 for sunny days 8)
2/ Keeping my 25 y.o. bike for the home trainer only :wink:
3/ Buying a very nice rainy/ winter bike with disc brakes and fenders (but something different to the C60 like for example a Specialized S-Works Tarmc Disc with DA elect. or ETap and with fenders) :mrgreen:


What do you think? What would you do in my place?

_________________
currently: Colnago C60 SR 2015 6.5 kg/ Colnago Dream DA 7400 STI 8 speed/ Scott Scale XTR/ Scott Spark XTR


Last edited by TonyM on Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:20 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 596
I definitely second the idea of a disc bike for the poor weather. Would not go for one where you can't have proper fenders, though. Why not get a custom Ti frame or an English bikes steel with hidden fender mounts, a fork that lets you install a fender, and possibly even a foldable / breakaway model for travel? This way you have a nice bike for winter riding and it sounds you travel a bit.

Cheers

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No longer in the industry


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Posts: 726
What kind of bikes are the others using in your group ride?
Expensive bikes or did they went for nononsense bikes?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
Posts: 226
First world problems LOL!

Is it mucky or just wet? I'm happy using my Bianchi Oltre XR2 in the wet but would not want to if the roads are filthy like UK winters. I use my Litespeed T1 in the winter and it's a nice ride and being Ti cleans up really easy.

So I'd suggest a nice Ti bike!

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Litespeed Ghisallo + Campagnolo Chorus 10 + Campagnolo Neutron Ultra


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Posts: 540
Location: Pom living in Australia
Move to a warmer/dryer country, problem solved. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Posts: 596
KCookie wrote:
Move to a warmer/dryer country, problem solved. :)


That's just mean ;P

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
Posts: 226
Oh and I don't think you can get mudguards on a S-Works Tarmac Disc, I looked at this option last year when I fancied a change. It's a real shame and for me as it would be a great all season bike. I do not see the point of a disc brake road bike that can't take mudguards

_________________
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Litespeed Ghisallo + Campagnolo Chorus 10 + Campagnolo Neutron Ultra


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4227
Ok... I was born and raised and went to university in Vancouver. I don't live there now but am still in the Pacific Northwest. I've been in your exact shoes. The woads are wet wabbit! As you've found out, fenders and flaps are mandatory for group rides. And I wouldn't ride without them on solo rides in the wet either. Discs may be great for really foul weather, but fenders are WAY more important imo. You unfortunately have hit one of the wetter winters on record for sure, but for the most part the rain is mild and you often find yourself starting out in rather pleasant conditions yet want to be prepared for the rain, or simply wet roads that never seem to fully dry out. It's the water and crud getting sprayed at you from the road that is far more of a problem than the clean water from the clouds.

It sucks riding a beater bike all winter so I totally get what you're saying. If you're like me, you don't want to give up a nice road bike feel just because it's wet out. Cross bikes are often a choice for many. But they don't handle like a road bike. I used to have a C50 all fendered up but could only use 23mm tires on it and even that proved to be too tight. "Useable" clearance is very different from "oh yeah, my tires don't rub (soft voice: for the most part)".

So when I decided to build a dedicated rain "road bike" I looked for a proper road bike with adequate clearance for full fenders that was easy to work on. And based on that, my dedicated rain bike ended up being a Trek Emonda SL and I couldn't be happier. Almost identical geometry as my Colnagos, but scads of clearance. With a 25mm Continental Competition Tubular mounted on Nemesis rims, there is a strong 6mm of clearance between the tire and the rear brake bridge or the front fork crown. I found that a strong 6mm of clearance is the miniumum necessary for me to custom mount full fenders that never touch the tire or make a sound. The handling is great. I purposely wanted the SL version for the regular mount brakes since the brake bolt provide the perfect place to anchor fenders by just running an inconspicuous zip tie over top of it and riveting the ends to the sides of the fenders. I actually tested out some disc braked bikes but in the end just didn't feel the need or want, even in the rain. When riding in the rain, caution is what's needed regardless of the braking system you're using.

Here's a couple of links to a couple of posts in another thread which details the fender install on the Emonda that I did...
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142434#p1274466
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142434&start=15#p1274874

Full shot...
Image


Front fender is both rotated a bit reward from where they intended it to be mounted (I got rid of the original moutning hardware) and then I riveted an additional flap to the existing rubber flap. It extends to within about 3-4cm of the pavement, but is stiff enough to flex but not enough to start hitting your feet on a fast descent from the wind blowing it backwards...
Image


Good shot of both flaps... and a cat...
Image


And from the back...
Image

Oh, and where specifically do your rides take you if I may ask. Vancouver area proper, or out in the valley (Fort Langley etc)?

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Last edited by Calnago on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:56 pm
Posts: 39
ah, tha infamous pacific northwett. One day I'll be there to ride up whistler.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:38 pm
Posts: 13
N+1, the answer is always a new bike!
Cervelo R3 disc, or coming R5 disc.
Canyon Ultimate CF SL/SLX disc.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1150
Location: The Lone Star State
The Trek Domane comes with integrated fender mounts, and you can get a disc brake version.

_________________
Madone 9 http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143973

Crockett http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=130567

Madone 5, Madone 4, SpeedConcept, Cobia

I own a lot of Treks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Canada (BC) (formerly F, D and CH)
Thanks for all replies!

Yes since October 95% of all my ride outside (and not on the home trainer) have been like 5 hours in the rain.
And like Calnago said the dirt on the side of the road is the worst part for the bike, chain etc... Fenders and mudflaps are indeed very nice (it was the first time I rode with full fenders and mudflaps and indeed you don't want to miss it in the future when it is really raining a long time or in the winter with the rain/ dirt. I also use regularly now the chain cleaner procedure, check the wear of the chain and cassette more often, etc...

The other guys in my group ride are riding either very old dirty bkes (no go for me), Cyclocross bikes (no go for me because of the geometry/ handling mainly) or some Giant bikes (TCR advanced, Defy) with disc brakes and Di2 (nice bikes but I personally would prefer to ride a better bike as the winter is quite long).

Yes Calnago you hit the point: my winter/ rain has to be with fenders and I want to have a "similar" bike than my good summer bike. This bike which I would then ride exclusively from October to Mai and mainly also from June to October will certainly turn out to be my main bike at the end.

I actually also consider a Titanium bike but back in the old days Titanium was discarded because it was too soft (like a vitus aluminum) and aluminum/ carbon was much preferred because of its stiffness and responsiveness. Titanium looks however very exclusive and is said to be comfortable. I would personally prefer a very good carbon bike for my winter and summer rain bike as I do really like the characteristics of the carbon frames being light and very efficient also. Even with a 150-200 km ride with the C60 I don't feel any problem. The geometry of the C60 is also very comfortable compared to my 25 y.o. Colnago Dream (back in these old days we used to be very stretched over the bike...). And to make the winter bike/ summer rain bike more exclusive to me, as it will turn out to be my main bike I suppose, I wanted to have disc brakes and electronic shifting.





@ Calnago: a few question and an answer...

Questions:
- Why did you choose the Emonda and not a S-Works Tarmac, Cannondale SuperSix Evo, Colnago V1-r or clx, BMC roadmachine, Trek Domane, Canyon Ultimate, Cervelo, etc...?
- Are you using your C60 in the rainy days in the summer or your Trek Emonda?

Answer:
I live in Maple Ridge, BC and I ride indeed in the Fraser Valley/ 0 Ave. for short/ middle rides and for longer ride so far I rode up to Harrison Hot Springs, Hope, Chiliwack, Abbotsford, etc.... With the group ride in the winter we mostly ride 4-5 hours ride in the Faser Valley/ 0. Ave. Let's see what I will do this summer maybe starting from hope etc....and explore further East. Actually I feel a little bit "squizzed" over here between the Vancouver, the ocean, USA and the mountain where there are not so many roads like in Europe but I will surely find a way :mrgreen:

_________________
currently: Colnago C60 SR 2015 6.5 kg/ Colnago Dream DA 7400 STI 8 speed/ Scott Scale XTR/ Scott Spark XTR


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm
Posts: 988
Last year I moved to the pacific northwest (Spokane). I bought a Specialized Crux to be my "gravel bike". It's ended up being an all purpose gravel / winter bike. We don't get as much rain as the coast so I don't need fenders but I've found that the fat down and seat tubes pretty much act like fenders and block the spray from puddles.

I picked the Crux because the geometry didn't seem that much different than my C59. It doesn't have a high bottom bracket like some cross bikes.

Anyway, the Crux has been way more fun than expected. In Spokane I can find some gravel to hit on almost every ride.

_________________
Colnago C59


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4227
TonyM wrote:
Thanks for all replies!

@ Calnago: a few question and an answer...

Questions:
- Why did you choose the Emonda and not a S-Works Tarmac, Cannondale SuperSix Evo, Colnago V1-r or clx, BMC roadmachine, Trek Domane, Canyon Ultimate, Cervelo, etc...?
- Are you using your C60 in the rainy days in the summer or your Trek Emonda?

Answer:
I live in Maple Ridge, BC and I ride indeed in the Fraser Valley/ 0 Ave. for short/ middle rides and for longer ride so far I rode up to Harrison Hot Springs, Hope, Chiliwack, Abbotsford, etc.... With the group ride in the winter we mostly ride 4-5 hours ride in the Faser Valley/ 0. Ave. Let's see what I will do this summer maybe starting from hope etc....and explore further East. Actually I feel a little bit "squizzed" over here between the Vancouver, the ocean, USA and the mountain where there are not so many roads like in Europe but I will surely find a way :mrgreen:

I actually looked at the Tarmac, but there simply wasn't enough clearance for 25mm tires and full fenders. This was in 2014. Maybe that's changed now. But the biggest reason was that the geometry of the Emonda in a 60 pretty much shares the geometry of my Colnago 61 to a T... Effective top tube was 586mm on both bikes. Seat angle is the same. The difference was that the Emonda SL only comes in an H2 which is a bit high even for me. I could go a centimeter or so lower at the front for fit, and the H2 front end does look a bit monstrous. But the ride and handling of this bike is fantastic. And it's well thought out and designed... cable routing is very good and easily accessible. I've had zero issues with the BB90 Bottom bracket, but I think installation is always an important factor when it comes to that area.
Other bikes I tested out were the Domane (way too long and high; nice bike but not what I wanted handling wise). And the Giant Advanced Defy disc. This was a funny feeling bike to me because the front end was nice and stiff but the rear end was loosy goosy, creating what I felt like a real imbalance in the whole bike. I rode a Large I believe with a saddle height of 805mm, and clearly the skinny seatpost contributed to this feeling, as it is designed to do. But in contrast, the Domane with it's rear isospeed felt much firmer to me in the rear, and more in balance with the front.

Edit: I pretty much looked at all the options, including the other bikes you listed with the exception of the brands I just don't care about for my own reasons. In most of the those cases, the clearance issues were a factor for fenders. But geometry and how it would fit me also came into play. A Colnago V1-R was not even on the radar simply due to the under and behind the BB placement of the rear brake. That's a bad place for a brake under ideal cirumstances, and for a winter rain bike it is the absolute worst. Ugh.

In the summer, or winter for that matter, I will rarely use my fendered bike unless it's really pouring when I leave, and I just don't head out that much these days if it's pouring when I want to go. Was on my C60 on Sunday and got caught in a torrential downpour. Kinda cold too. But it's just water... it cleans up. As you also pointed out, it's important to rinse the drive train with water at the end of a ride like that so as to get most of the fine road grit off. I just stick the bike in a stand in my yard and spray it off with a hose.

Oh, and I think you're really exaggerating how rainy it really is, but maybe I'm just used to it. But I will give it to you this year as it has been awfully wet. But the summers... I don't think there's any better climate.

Good luck in your choice, whichever way you go.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Last edited by Calnago on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Canada (BC) (formerly F, D and CH)
Calnago wrote:
I actually looked at the Tarmac, but there simply wasn't enough clearance for 25mm tires and full fenders. This was in 2014. Maybe that's changed now. But the biggest reason was that the geometry of the Emonda in a 60 pretty much shares the geometry of my Colnago 61 to a T... Effective top tube was 586mm on both bikes. Seat angle is the same. The difference was that the Emonda SL only comes in an H2 which is a bit high even for me. I could go a centimeter or so lower at the front for fit, and the H2 front end does look a bit monstrous. But the ride and handling of this bike is fantastic. And it's well thought out and designed... cable routing is very good and easily accessible. I've had zero issues with the BB90 Bottom bracket, but I think installation is always an important factor when it comes to that area.
Other bikes I tested out were the Domane (way too long and high; nice bike but not what I wanted handling wise). And the Giant Advanced Defy disc. This was a funny feeling bike to me because the front end was nice and stiff but the rear end was loosy goosy, creating what I felt like a real imbalance in the whole bike. I rode a Large I believe with a saddle height of 805mm, and clearly the skinny seatpost contributed to this feeling, as it is designed to do. But in contrast, the Domane with it's rear isospeed felt much firmer to me in the rear, and more in balance with the front.

In the summer, or winter for that matter, I will rarely use my fendered bike unless it's really pouring when I leave, and I just don't head out that much these days if it's pouring when I want to go. Was on my C60 on Sunday and got caught in a torrential downpour. Kinda cold too. But it's just water... it cleans up. As you also pointed out, it's important to rinse the drive train with water at the end of a ride like that so as to get most of the fine road grit off. I just stick the bike in a stand in my yard and spray it off with a hose.

Oh, and I think you're really exaggerating how rainy it really is, but maybe I'm just used to it. But I will give it to you this year as it has been awfully wet. But the summers... I don't think there's any better climate.

Good luck in your choice, whichever way you go.


Yes the rain here is maybe like the weather in the UK. I am just not used to it. But now I have accepted it and that's it :mrgreen: the dirt on the side of the roads in the winter is much worse.

I suppose I have to use my C60 also when it is raining in the summer. I wanted to "save" it for the nice sunny days without any rain but at the end that would be a shame to have such a nice bike and not to ride it.

Ok I understand your point concerning the geometry. To me it is a little bit different as my C60 is almost too comfortable to me in terms of the position. Maybe it is also because I have it only for 1,5 years and before I always rode my "old" Colnago Dream Aluminum with a geometry from the 90s...long long long...So at the end I could go for a geometry like the C60 or a little more "stretched" or race oriented like the Cannondale are said to be. I am not sure about the Tarmac.

I would like to avoid for these reasons all the "endurance" bikes which I believe will be not "race oriented" enough in terms of the geometry. I don't race any more but with so many years and km on race bike, my body seems to be very good used to this.

What would you think about the Specialzed Crux which was just mentioned and should have a similar geometry than the C59?

_________________
currently: Colnago C60 SR 2015 6.5 kg/ Colnago Dream DA 7400 STI 8 speed/ Scott Scale XTR/ Scott Spark XTR


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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:25 pm 


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