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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Out of respect for the thread that these originated from, I have split these posts out and popped them in a new thread. Where we can all discuss the merits (or possibly lack thereof, depending on your POV) on the Chinese 'knock off' frames.



Cheers,

TP


Please note, this wasn't a thread started by me with the idea of complaining about brand less frames...
The original thread is here : http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=103463


I wish I could get behind the no badge, no background stuff...

But I cant help but thenk I would be a "dengfool" for riding one after looking at busted out frames lined with old news print and made from carbon that sat out too long to use for a name brand part...

Not saying that's the case here, but I just don't know what I don't know and I want a little confidence when the only thing between my skin and the street at 50 mph are parts that nobody knows anything at all about except that they're 80% cheaper than dependable brands...

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Last edited by CharlesM on Wed May 30, 2012 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:47 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Oh, here we go...

:popcorn:

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:16 am 
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im waiting for their impec copy...

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:55 am 
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Given the world is still waiting for Impec's to properly roll out, it could be a while :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:26 am 
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Never mind.

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Last edited by elviento on Wed May 30, 2012 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:17 am 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
Given the world is still waiting for Impec's to properly roll out, it could be a while :lol:


if you want to see the impec, i could roll out to R&A and they have 4 or 5 hanging right above their counter. this was a couple of months ago when i saw them, so they have been available for a while now.

the bike (FM098) looks good. i see more and more people buying china oem bikes, ive got no problem with it, as long as there is no problem with the bikes. in the RBR forums there are a bunch of people who have bought these bikes with no problem. dengfu, hungfu are not the companies manufacturing the bikes they are just middle men, for companies that produce the name brand bikes. i think these guys want to continue selling bikes and would like to build a decent reputation and not scare off people - thats charles/pez job.


so all these bikes are made in the same factory, but as long as you put a recognized name it should be ok??? hey, that bike that broke the stays, wasn't it name brand, specialized???

Image

jordo99 wrote:
II'm just not in a position where I can afford such a bike yet (25 years old and still paying off college loans)


no need to explain man - enjoy your bike. ride your bike, ride it hard and come back with a report. then the knuckle head nay sayers would have nothing to talk about.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:09 am 
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spytech - I'm sure you've read the thread, so realise there's a little more to that 'failure' than simply the good old exploding carbon.

But I see what you're saying, failures happy across all brands - big or small.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:56 am 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
spytech - I'm sure you've read the thread, so realise there's a little more to that 'failure' than simply the good old exploding carbon.

But I see what you're saying, failures happy across all brands - big or small.



lets forget about what happened to that frame for a second. if you have two bikes from different brands and/or oem, built by the same people what is the difference? are they intentionally building an inferior product? your buying straight from the factory (almost denfu is a middle man) so the savings are there. you no longer have to pay for support or branding, bike shop profit, etc. so if you cut all that out, what do you have? a $450 fm098 of decent quality. you could by 4 or 5 of these bikes for the price of a single specialized; so there is your crash replacements.

by the way, we do not know what exactly happened to that frame in the picture. all we have is speculation and snapped chain and seat stays. if this had happened to a chinese frame woohoo, field day for people like pez. it would no longer be user error, no speculation needed... we would have reply's like " your a damnfu for buying a dengfu you fool". or something like that. you get the message. i think we need to stop being hypocrites and not apply double standards to same thing.

btw, i was all for paying more money for an iphone that is manufactured in good ole USA. but in realty manufacturing in china allows apple to employ much more people here in USA then if they were making the phone in the states.

i have a lot of respect for mario cipollini and his bikes, making the bikes in italy and calling out the companies that say that they are made in italy but are made in china. btw, in the giro, a cipollini bike broke. so yes, anything can break.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:54 am 
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Never mind.

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Last edited by elviento on Wed May 30, 2012 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:39 am 
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copying others design/technology is something that the china has done for 1000's of years. its the culture that is breed this way. it is not only bikes, but cars too now. bmw tried to sue an auto maker who made a car that looked exactly as their x5, but chinese court said it did not look anything alike. LoL - top gear did a show on this. http://l3fff.hubpages.com/hub/Chinese_BMW_X5_Copy

bmw doesnt produce cars in china, but cannondale, cervelo, parlee, etc. make the bikes in china and thus know the laminate schedule and exactly how they are built because they do it on a daily basis. this is why chinese copies are pretty damn good. its too late to turn back now, we created this, now we have to deal with it. you feel sorry for one man, when these copies put food on 100's of peoples plates, it is what it is.

its not a debate on italy vs china. china has no technology, or major innovation. japan not great inventors, but they always improved on a product while china is content with making a clone.

http://www.designsojourn.com/why-does-c ... y-designs/


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Have moved these posts to a new thread and new forum.

You can go nuts now guys.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:12 pm 
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spytech wrote:
copying others design/technology is something that the china has done for 1000's of years. its the culture that is breed this way.


this isn't true. it is a recent thing. chinese culture itself has brought a lot of things to the world.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:20 pm 
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I laughed when I read "Wu Tang" :lol:

Image

New Dengfu TT frame, FM069. Already done the rounds at RBR and Slowtwitch so might as well introduce it here for the time trialists among us.

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prendrefeu wrote:
Hating a 'drivetrain' choice on one bike vs. another is as imbecile as people getting into fist-fights at a motor race that they are not actually racing in Australia over a debate between two car companies. It really is ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:33 pm 
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spytech wrote:
copying others design/technology is something that the china has done for 1000's of years. its the culture that is breed this way. it is not only bikes, but cars too now. bmw tried to sue an auto maker who made a car that looked exactly as their x5, but chinese court said it did not look anything alike. LoL - top gear did a show on this. http://l3fff.hubpages.com/hub/Chinese_BMW_X5_Copy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bmw doesnt produce cars in china, but cannondale, cervelo, parlee, etc. make the bikes in china and thus know the laminate schedule and exactly how they are built because they do it on a daily basis. this is why chinese copies are pretty damn good. its too late to turn back now, we created this, now we have to deal with it. you feel sorry for one man, when these copies put food on 100's of peoples plates, it is what it is.

its not a debate on italy vs china. china has no technology, or major innovation. japan not great inventors, but they always improved on a product while china is content with making a clone.

http://www.designsojourn.com/why-does-c ... y-designs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Yes, BMW produces cars in China!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#China


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Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:33 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Appears that, at least, some people find the "Wu Tang" thing funny.


Last edited by bones on Wed May 30, 2012 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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