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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:57 am 
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Northoceanbeach wrote:
The function of each pedal is no different than each groupset, groups pedal, brake and shift....pedals turn the cranks. They may have slightly different characteristics like stack height and float, but they all have stack height and float, and to most people that's not much different than crank length, hood shape, how they shift, brake performance. So they both do a task.

Given your self-admitted lack of cycling knowledge, you might do well to not make sweeping statements like this.

The fact it's incorrect (pedals do more than simply "turn the cranks") notwithstanding.


Northoceanbeach wrote:
but I also think that it performs better in a lot of applications like cranks.

Based on? Again, please see above.


Northoceanbeach wrote:
One day soon, Shimano will only make carbon cranks for Dura Ace

Shimano are an alloy based company, not carbon. Of course none of us can see the future, but it would be many decades before this is remotely likely to occur.

Sure they could nut out a magnificent alloy crank, but they could not get the same production levels for it as they can for alloy. And when they are as good as they are in forging, why would they bother?


I understand your reasons for wanting Campag, but to discount Shimano, in part, because you see aluminium as second rate is naive.

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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:57 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:56 am 
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Since I am unqualified to comment on something as simple as the function of a pedal, what would you have me believe a pedal does. It seems obvious, it pedals, but I guess there is something I am missing.

Even if Shimano is that great at forging, 90% of the public doesn't even know whether a crank is forged or not, so to Jane Scmo, who may think that guy on the fancy bike riding by looks cool, sometimes carbon just looks good and sells. I don't know that a Record derailleur need that much, but it looks nice, and since people are really starting to see carbon as the "future" of bikes whether aluminum is just as good or not, Shimano will start to use it because that's what the customer demands.

What do you mean based on? I said I think it performs better, so that's based on my opinion.

Don't think that everyone lives in a road bike bubble where they know the weight of their brakes, most just by a bike and ride and don't nitpick about every little piece on their bike.(i pick)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:21 am 
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I'm curious as to why you think carbon is a better material and performs better in cranks. I'm not trying to be rude at all, I would really like to hear your opinion here.

Is there really a higher demand for carbon based cranks over aluminum cranks? And should the people who prefer/demand aluminum cranks just suffer because some people see carbon as the "future" of bikes?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:34 am 
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Northoceanbeach wrote:
Since I am unqualified to comment on something as simple as the function of a pedal, what would you have me believe a pedal does. It seems obvious, it pedals, but I guess there is something I am missing.

There's quite a bit, especially in relation to a bike fit. There are quite a few threads on here; both on what different systems allow and different issues people have solved with a shift of pedals.


I wasn't intending to come across as condescending - rather helping out a new member and someone new to cycling. As you yourself indicated, within this thread, it apparently is lacking on this board.


Given your snide reply though, it seems you already know all you 'need' to know and aren't looking to entertain being further educated.


Which is fine by me. Pleas though keep that in mind before you start the next thread asking for assistance.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:50 am 
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Northoceanbeach: it sounds like you want a Campagnolo groupset and are looking for others to help you justify buying it. Just go out and buy whatever you can afford. I doubt you will regret it.

Given the tone this thread is beginning to take I suggest the mods end it here.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:53 am 
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I heard/read that Campagnolo and BB30/PF30 didn't mix too well with the available adapters.

Is there something new that works ? (Praxis has a solution for Shimano cranks but not yet for Campy)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Hi,

Quote:
Shimano are an alloy based company, not carbon.


Well, not quite. As far as groupsets go they do not seem to see any incentive to switch to carbon fibre.
Still, beside carbon rims, they are also huge in carbon fibre fishing rods and no doubt other stuff most of us aren't even aware of.
Let's not forget either that they're nextdoor neighbour is one of the major carbon fibre manufacturers. (Toray)

@Jimh: As for PF30 issues, there already exists a thread or two on that.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:50 pm 
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fdegrove is 100 percent correct. Shimano makes some fantastic composite fishing rods.

And Shimano did make a carbon crank - the 7800c. IIRC, it offered no weight savings or enhanced stiffness.

Finally, pretty much everyone on this board agrees that it's hard to beat Cannondale Hollowgram cranks, which are aluminum.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Yep, and most agree that FSA carbon cranks are lousy. I've had two sets- both have problems. I've never had a problem with an alloy crank.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Privateer wrote:
Northoceanbeach: it sounds like you want a Campagnolo groupset and are looking for others to help you justify buying it. Just go out and buy whatever you can afford. I doubt you will regret it.

Given the tone this thread is beginning to take I suggest the mods end it here.


This.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:40 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Privateer wrote:
Northoceanbeach: it sounds like you want a Campagnolo groupset and are looking for others to help you justify buying it. Just go out and buy whatever you can afford. I doubt you will regret it.

Given the tone this thread is beginning to take I suggest the mods end it here.


This.


Pretty much. Market pressure has made revolutionary differences between top end groupsets almost non-existant (unless you are talking electronic vs mechanical which is an entirely different discussions). It sounds like you want Campy. No one is going to be able to assuage you of that, so just buy whatever you can afford from them.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Well, I don't want offend anybody or be snippy, but I didn't start this post to figure out what to buy, if you read the first post it doesn't have anything to do with me buying. I just wanted the groups ranked against each other based on people's opinions.

I have no idea why they get aggro, but if someone told you not to comment on what a pedal does because you we're too stupid you would be offended too.

I asked my girlfriend what does a pedal do besides pedal and she had no idea what I was talking about.

But five pages later and no one has answered my original question.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:42 pm 
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That's because any hierarchy that someone puts the groupsets into is going to be highly contentious- no one groupset is definitively "better" than another, within the broad categories that each sit in- i.e. Record/Dura-Ace/Red are all a) very good, b) used by Pro's and c) have slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Of course Super Record is going to be better than Apex- shifting, weight, looks, but that's comparing a top tier to entry level.

My 2p: if you want to choose a groupset then go and try it out. Making a pretty significant decision based on reviews/looks/perception is sub-optimal.

You wouldn't by a bike without test riding it, would you?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Northoceanbeach wrote:
But five pages later and no one has answered my original question.


:roll:

Your original question:
Northoceanbeach wrote:
Could someone give me a list of the best to worst road groupsets?


The answer: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=113349#p967693

And since then, the best advice given to you was for you to get a cup of coffee and read, read, read this forum and the absolute wealth of information contained within the very valuable discussions.

And, since then, eventually, you gave more specific needs that can help us help you. So we took those and someone gave you a fantastic, reasonable, and intelligent answer...

...which you chose to ignore because you are jonesin' for Campagolo.

...which is fine, and all the power to you to get what you want, no one is going to stop you or convince you otherwise. And, really, if you had been reading, you'll find that no one really cares what you choose so long as you enjoy what you chose for yourself.

...and again, if you have even bothered to listen or read at all, you would find that truly no one really gives a genuine damn about what you are riding because it is YOUR needs and desires that are fulfilled, they all work fine, and they are all quality products.

... and guess where that answer was? On the first page of this thread.

Do you know what the biggest irony of this thread is so far?
You started a thread stating that you're doing this for "the uninformed". Then genuinely informed people inform you, and they do it in a very balanced, intelligent way. Then you ignore them, and then you make claims about carbon vs. metals vs. the marketplace as if you are informed - which is ironic because your statements are clearly uninformed, yet you state them as if you are providing an informed service for other people who are uninformed. It's mindblowing to watch the progression of this thread now and chart your statements from the beginning to this point.

Really, if you had spent any time reading the depth of WW forums and the threads here, and spent just a little bit of time getting informed, you would see that we're here to help you.

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