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 Post subject: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Posts: 431
Couple questions for the more informed out there ...

http://www.quarq.com/quarq-elsa-10r

Quarqs two new cranks ... the Elsa is said to use the exo carbon cranks SRAM is now using that are a bit nicer than the usual carbon power meter cranks.

Are these crank arms being used on the new SRAM RED branded quarq?

Anyone have an opinion if these new 2013 quarks are more competitive with current wireless SRM's?

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:50 pm 
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I think the new ones are a nice step. They both have the omnical, so you can switch chainrings with no need to recalibrate.

The weights are really good. The more expensive one is lighter than the claimed weight on the "red" Quarq and you can use standard bolt pattern rings.

Another plus is they are labeled "quarq" and nor Sram... if you are into vanity :)


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:50 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
I like how they "enhanced accuracy" from 1.5% to 1.5%.

I wonder how the chaninring auto-calibration works.

Very cool seeing 162.5 mm supported. But it seems a bit strange my old favorite 167.5 mm is skipped. I've switched to 170 mm, so wouldn't affect me anyway. Overall it seems like a great option mass-wise. You can save a lot by going to a lighter outer chainring, especially if you drop it to my favored 46T.

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Posts: 171
Has there ever been a new powermeter that claimed worse accuracy than previous models or competing brands?


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:44 pm
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djconnel wrote:
I like how they "enhanced accuracy" from 1.5% to 1.5%.

I wonder how the chaninring auto-calibration works.

Very cool seeing 162.5 mm supported. But it seems a bit strange my old favorite 167.5 mm is skipped. I've switched to 170 mm, so wouldn't affect me anyway. Overall it seems like a great option mass-wise. You can save a lot by going to a lighter outer chainring, especially if you drop it to my favored 46T.


Sorry if there is confusion. The new Quarq ELSA and Quarq RIKEN powermeters are replacing the SRAM S975 powermeter which only had an accuracy of 2%. The SRAM Red Quarq does already have a 1.5% accuracy.

As you can see the two new powermeters have a very similar platform as the SRAM Red Quarq; hence the now claimed 1.5% accuracy for all of them.

Mieke
Quarq Technology


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Thanks Mike!

And I take it the new Riken has the exogram crank arms and the new Sram red quarq does not correct?

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Location: phoenix, az
is the spider or what I essentially think of being "the quarq unit" the same between the Elsa, sram red, and the specialized unit? And if so, I'm a little lost as to how the specialized spider alone has a higher msrp than the Riken and almost as high of an msrp as the elsa or red units when those packages seemingly include the cranks, rings, and bb too!

It appears only the Elsa has the exogram cranks and the sram red and RIKEN have carbon cranks.


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Well, i have just ordered a new Quarq Red powermeter, but is there a technical differens between the Elsa and the Red? I'm not thinking about the crankarms, but the "brain".


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Brain is the same.

From my understanding the

sram red quarq has the normal carbon arms - the hidden chainring bolt

elsa - fancy carbon arms - black rings - lighter spider than above

riken - normal carbon arms - black rings

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:43 pm 
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weekapaugin wrote:
is the spider or what I essentially think of being "the quarq unit" the same between the Elsa, sram red, and the specialized unit? And if so, I'm a little lost as to how the specialized spider alone has a higher msrp than the Riken and almost as high of an msrp as the elsa or red units when those packages seemingly include the cranks, rings, and bb too!

It appears only the Elsa has the exogram cranks and the sram red and RIKEN have carbon cranks.


The Quarq ELSA, Red, and Specialized spiders are all based on a similar platform and technology but there are differences. If you look closely, you'll see they are not all exactly the same.

That is correct, the ELSA powermeters do have the Exogram cranks whereas the SRAM Red are currently shipping with the regular carbon arms. The RIKEN will also have regular carbon arms when they ship in February.

Mieke
Quarq Technology


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:18 pm
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Location: phoenix, az
Thanks Mike,

Are you able to elaborate as to what those differences might be at all? And would any of them have a performance or user impact/advantage/disadvantage? The product info pages make it appear as all three (elsa, red, and speci) are capable of the same things, with the same claimed accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:57 pm 
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weekapaugin wrote:
Thanks Mike,

Are you able to elaborate as to what those differences might be at all? And would any of them have a performance or user impact/advantage/disadvantage? The product info pages make it appear as all three (elsa, red, and speci) are capable of the same things, with the same claimed accuracy.


I cannot elaborate on the specifics but from the users standpoint, they all have the same capabilities and accuracy.

Mieke
Quarq Technology


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:54 am 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
The best guess is they improved the strain gauge configuration to reduce the influence of chainring specifics.

It would be interesting to run a test: ride with Powertap at constant powertap power. Then remove a chainring bolt. Ride again at constant powertap power and see if Quarq reading is affected, and if there is a transition time for "Omnicalibration".

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Great comment from wattage forum:

If you look closely at the product shots of the new Quarq PM's (including the new red PM) the spider appears to have two distinct structural elements. The main part of the PM is starfish shaped and appears to be a separate structural element which is inset into the spider. This is quite different to the old design where the strain gauges could be seen as nodes in each of the spider arms. My guess is that the gauges are in the central starfish shaped component and as a consequence would be far less affected by chainring bolt torque at the extremities of the separate structural spider. The design of the mating of the two elements probably distributes torque from the chainrings much more evenly to the gauges.

This is conjecture, not Quarq official, but it makes enormous sense. They changed the design to include a mechanical buffer between the chainrings and the main part of the spider. This helps spread out the load, reducing the sensitivity to details about chainring geometric load patterns.

It's an ongoing topic of discussion how important accuracy and precision are to power meters. People often argue precision is important, not accuracy, but if you lose accuracy you probably lose precision as well. There's always the gross pacing aspect of power meters which doesn't require much (5%?) but then the fitness tracking aspect which requires more (2% upper bound). I place a high value on accuracy and precision and if this design is not only more accurate out-of-the-box, but further retains it with chainring changes, that's worth a lot to me.

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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:37 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: New Quarq?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:44 am 
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Posts: 65
mieke@quarq wrote:
That is correct, the ELSA powermeters do have the Exogram cranks whereas the SRAM Red are currently shipping with the regular carbon arms. The RIKEN will also have regular carbon arms when they ship in February.

Mieke
Quarq Technology

Mieke - Are the ELSA powermeters also shipping in February or are they ready to go now? Seems like there are some samples already around the place, e.g http://www.flickr.com/photos/glorycycle ... 414368663/

Thanks for the info.


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