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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:11 am
Posts: 198
Location: Beirut, LEBANON
wingguy wrote:
I can respect people who want to pay for a Pinarello just because it says Pinarello on it. I can respect people who want a cheap Chinese frame because they think that established brands have massively inflated prices for similar performance and quality.

I can't respect someone who wants to pretend they've paid for a Pinarello (or any other fake) when they haven't. It's not a replica, it's a forgery - and buying one is the worst kind of image obsessed status chasing I can think of.


Totally agreed. Buying a Pinarello Chinese replica makes my eyes roll in despair :roll:

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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:35 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:47 am 
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am
Posts: 604
Location: Finland
Nothing wrong with cheap chinese frames that are unbranded or use their own branding, but buying forgeries = supporting criminals.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1156
Location: UK
kampiakseli wrote:
Here is my wifes new Dogma 65.1 replica.

Why post it in a thread about the weight of a REAL Dogma 2 65.1k?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 2080
Location: Denmark
wingguy wrote:
I can respect people who want to pay for a Pinarello just because it says Pinarello on it. I can respect people who want a cheap Chinese frame because they think that established brands have massively inflated prices for similar performance and quality.

I can't respect someone who wants to pretend they've paid for a Pinarello (or any other fake) when they haven't. It's not a replica, it's a forgery - and buying one is the worst kind of image obsessed status chasing I can think of.


:exactly:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 3310
Location: Athens, Greece
+100
I suggest all these guys proud of their replicas to read Bourdieau's Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 7
Quite amusing to see 3 Pinarello Dogma's in the top 3 spots in today's tough TDF stage in the Pyrenees, after reading all the disparaging comments about the heavy frame. I suspect the motor might be just a wee bit more relevant than bike weight? :twisted:

I happen to have a 2012 Pinarello Paris, which has the exact same geometry as the Dogma. It uses a slightly heavier carbon weave (said to be 80 grams heavier), and doesn't have the stiffening ribs, etc like the Dogma. But it is said to ride exactly the same for all intents and purposes, and the frame costs around $2000 less. It indeed rides like a dream, and I wouldn't trade it for anything,

With Ultegra Di2, stock PInarello MOST saddle, seat-post, bars, stem, and bottom bracket, Fulcrum 1 clinchers, Dura Ace pedals, Arundel Mandible cages, the bike comes in at 8.051kg or 17.75 lbs with Garmin 500, Bar Fly mount, cadence sensor, etc. And yet I'm rather pleased with myself about how many guys half my age (I'm 52) on MUCH lighter bikes fall by the wayside when the going gets steep. :P

I do plan to lighten it a fair amount (this is Weight Weenies after all), but as it is I'm pretty stoked!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Posts: 291
HardmanKnott wrote:
Quite amusing to see 3 Pinarello Dogma's in the top 3 spots in today's tough TDF stage in the Pyrenees, after reading all the disparaging comments about the heavy frame. I suspect the motor might be just a wee bit more relevant than bike weight? :twisted:


Well obviously but frame weight is largely irrelevant anyway given the 6.8kg rule.

From an amateur's point of view though it's awfully expensive to hit a weight goal with a Dogma since you start with a penalty of between 200 and 500 grams compared to other top end frames.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1162
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
HardmanKnott wrote:

With Ultegra Di2, stock PInarello MOST saddle, seat-post, bars, stem, and bottom bracket, Fulcrum 1 clinchers, Dura Ace pedals, Arundel Mandible cages, the bike comes in at 8.051kg or 17.75 lbs with Garmin 500, Bar Fly mount, cadence sensor, etc. And yet I'm rather pleased with myself about how many guys half my age (I'm 52) on MUCH lighter bikes fall by the wayside when the going gets steep. :P


Damn that heavy? Might as well buy a stock CAAD 10 and swap out the wheels. What happens when the guy who's just as strong as you and older than you rides a 13.8 lb bike?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:49 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Netherlands
Dogma frame DOUBLES the weight of an R5. And about all those dogma builds of 10.000€ and 7.2kg, well... my chinese frame build with 105 is sub7 kg with aluminium wheels and costa under 2000€. So please elevate the level of the diacussion.

Pinarello sucks big time.

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 Post subject: Dogma 2 65.1k weight?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:33 am
Posts: 215
MajorMantra wrote:
Replica = theft of IP. Not cool.


+1

I just wrapped up a case of a fake R5ca with PayPal, and I went out of my way to make sure that frame wasn't sent back to the seller. It took slightly over a month, but I have to say it was pretty damn satisfying to get my money back and have Cervelo pay for the fake frame to be shipped back to them.

That said, I have a BoB Dogma 2 which is why I started to read this post. When I first saw the Dogmas, I thought they were pretty darn weird maybe even ugly with the onda fork. But somehow the look has grown on me. And when I see it in person, I actually like the look a lot more. Do I believe all the mumbo jumbo around vibration dispersement? I just think to myself and say wow, I wonder how much stiffer this bike would have been if it didn't have it. Anyway the bike is a tank. Not my favorite climbing bike, not my favorite sprinting bike, but overall it's still a great bike - super stable, super precise, predictable handling. This build is 6.5 kg or so. Not amazing, not terrible, but make no mistake, I didn't buy it for weenie purposes. Anyone who buys a Pinarello and wants weenie is only kidding themselves.

If you want weenie, you have to start weenie.
Weenie and amazing is going to be my next project...Image


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 1106
Location: Australia
I built up a 2013 Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 with the following specs and it came in, ready to ride, at 6.78kg (including bottle cage and pedals).

Frame: 2013 Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think2 - 53cm
Fork: 2013 Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2
Bar: 3T Ergonova LTD - 42cm
Stem: 3T LTD - 100mm
Bar Tape: Pinarello Synthetic Cork - Black
Saddle: Fizik Antares 00
Shifters: 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed
Crankset: 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed - Titanium Version 172.5mm 39/53
Brakes: 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed - Dual Pivot Front, Single Pivot Rear
RD 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed
FD: 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed
Cassette: 2013 Campagnolo Super Record 11 Speed - 12-25
Wheelset: 2013 Campagnolo Shamal Ultra Dark Label
Tubes: Continental Race Light 42mm
Tyres: Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CXII 320TPI
Bottle: Cage Elite Pase
Pedals: Look Keo Blade Titanium 16nm


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