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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:25 pm
Posts: 184
Location: Israel
Anyone here own a Pioneer Powermeter and can give some real life impression on it? Would be cool if someone has a real comparison between other Powermeters.
I could not find any real life reviews, all were from "commercial" sites/blogs.
Wondering if it has any known failures, etc...

Thanks!


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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:57 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:45 am
Posts: 93
Location: Bristol, UK
The DCR review should be out next week according to the bottom of the P2Max review

Quote:
Preemptive ‘When will I review X power meter’ section: This review kicks off what will likely be bi-weekly direct force power meter reviews for the foreseeable future. Much of the data has actually been gathered over the last 4-6 months, just a case of analyzing data and writing up reviews. Next you’ll see the Verve Infocrank review, followed by the Pioneer unit. Then, some variant of a 4iiii Precision review (left only initially with follow-up dual-sided piece when it releases), then we’ve got PowerTap’s P1 pedals followed by the C1 unit. Somewhere in there I’ll re-visit the Polar pedals once the Polar V650 supports them. But as usual, anything else that pops out will be slotted based on a combination of when it got into the queue and reader interest/demand.)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:16 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:23 am
Posts: 169
Over the last few years I have used just about every power meter available, and have been using a pioneer every day for the last 3 months. My impression has been very good, with accurate, repeatable, reliable data. No issues with the unit itself, and the volume of data ( torque vectors etc) is just immense. The head unit is a bit clunky, but highly functional and a non issue once it's set up. Overall I have been really pleased!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:37 am
Posts: 2
I've had mine for a little over 2 months. So far its been reliable, gives numbers that match my other PM's but with a ton more data. Only issue is it seems to be battery hungry, 140hrs use and seen 2 sets of batteries so far. Head unit is fine for the data but the gps seems hit and miss on it speed wise. Pioneers cyclo-sphere has been pretty decent to use but I would like to see a non-cloud based version of it. Maybe wko+ 4.0 will be able to utilize the data in a similar fashion?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:25 pm
Posts: 184
Location: Israel
Thanks everyone!
Lucky i waited a little bit, Pioneer just reduced their price of the "BYOD" bundle to 999$, so i just need to purchase a Dura-Ace FC-9000 Crankset and send it to them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 9
Infin1ty wrote:
Lucky i waited a little bit, Pioneer just reduced their price of the "BYOD" bundle to 999$, so i just need to purchase a Dura-Ace FC-9000 Crankset and send it to them.


fezi wrote:
I've had mine for a little over 2 months.


clarkson wrote:
Over the last few years I have used just about every power meter available, and have been using a pioneer every day for the last 3 months.


Any of you guys have info on temperature drift and the auto zero feature you can set up by calibrating at different temperatures? It's unclear whether it's available for every head unit or just with pioneer's own one. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 107
I have the Pioneer powermeter and head unit. I can't prove it because I haven't tried a different head unit but the Pioneer manual says that the calibration data and software is in the powermeter itself. When you have a different head unit and run the calibration it claims to run the same software as with the Pioneer head unit. The only difference is both arms are always calibrated at the same time. With the Pioneer head unit you can calibrate the arms separately one at a time or together two at a time.

As an aside, the temperature compensation seems to work quite well. When I look at the offset values they are always within the +/-3N tolerance regardless of the temperature.

Another cool feature is that CycloSphere will now automatically indicate where you are sitting and where you are standing on you rides and you can do statistics on the standing and sitting portions sepearately. Not sure what to do with the data but it is interesting to look at.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm
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djwalker wrote:
I have the Pioneer powermeter and head unit. I can't prove it because I haven't tried a different head unit but the Pioneer manual says that the calibration data and software is in the powermeter itself. When you have a different head unit and run the calibration it claims to run the same software as with the Pioneer head unit. The only difference is both arms are always calibrated at the same time. With the Pioneer head unit you can calibrate the arms separately one at a time or together two at a time.

As an aside, the temperature compensation seems to work quite well. When I look at the offset values they are always within the +/-3N tolerance regardless of the temperature.

Another cool feature is that CycloSphere will now automatically indicate where you are sitting and where you are standing on you rides and you can do statistics on the standing and sitting portions sepearately. Not sure what to do with the data but it is interesting to look at.


Thank you! Very useful!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 3954
Location: Vicenza
Last month I noticed that one my friend had installed one on his bike and I asked how it was going; he was a bit pissed cause for example the little "battery door" (donno what word to use) was coming off and he had to put a little paper inside to keep everything pressed.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 15
I've had a Pioneer for a few months. I also have a Quarq ELSA, an ELSA RS, a Stages and a Powertap Pro.

Agree that the Pioneer temperature compensation appears to work well. My Quarq with the 10K compensation is new so I can't say yet how it compares, but the Pioneer is definitely better than the Quarqs without 10K which would produce errors of close to 10% in extremely hot or cold conditions.

Pioneer's weight increase over the stock DA crank is also less than most of the competition (considerably so in a few cases).

There are 3 downsides to the Pioneer:

1. The dual sensor magnets are bulky and easy to knock out of alignment, either when moving/servicing the bike, or 100% guaranteed if you throw a chain on the inside. If you have tapered chainstays they can slide out of alignment on their own unless you use double-sided tape instead of just the stock straps. They are also fairly noticeable, luckily my frame is black but you can still notice them. On a light-colored frame they would be very obvious, especially the non-drive-side magnet.

2. You only get the cool pedaling-monitor features if you have the Pioneer head unit AND you have put the power meter into pedaling-monitor mode instead of power meter mode. Luckily Pioneer has just added a feature to the SGX-CA500 firmware that allows you to switch modes via the head unit, because otherwise you have to take 3 screws out of the cover on the chainring module, remove the cover, and hold down a tiny button. However, there is still hassle, since the reason you would want to switch between modes is if you have two different head units. For example maybe you use the Pioneer for training and a Garmin when you want navigation. To use the Garmin, you have to boot up the Pioneer head unit, wake up the power meter, use the head unit to change modes, then switch between the Pioneer and the Garmin.

3. Changing chainrings on the Pioneer is like brain surgery, and fraught with peril. Do not attempt to do it yourself even if you are a competent mechanic. Buy the Pioneer at an LBS so you can take it to them when you need new or different size chainrings, just because they will take responsibility when they break it (which they probably will).

So I'm not 100% thrilled with the Pioneer but its accuracy is good. On the other hand I really love the SGX-CA500 head unit, its Wi-Fi upload is unbelievably convenient, battery life is like 10 hours, and GPS reception is better than Garmin. It even supports the Di2 9070 under-shifter-hood switches so you can do things like change display pages without taking your hands off the hoods (requires the little Shimano Di2 wireless module). I use the Pioneer head unit with other brands of power meters and it works great, so I recommend it whether you go with the Pioneer power meter or not.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
Posts: 273
finally an answer to the 'what about changing chainring' question, and unfortunatly not a good one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:49 pm
Posts: 131
Hi,

My past experience includes the use of Powertap, SRM and Power2Max.

I'm using a Pioneer PM four months now and my feedback is the Following:

1. I really don't like the magnets installation process and durability

2. Left arm single get's lost once in a while and the only way to solve this issue is to remove the battery cup and re-install the battery.

3. Barometer is not accurate if you compare the data with a Garmin device data (I use Pioneer's head unit)

4. Pioneers service is poor, long waiting and unprofessional help desk.

In general speak, the crank is very accurate and consistent. SRM was great, but the service costs are too high. I love the simplicity of PC7 heat unit and the lack of GPS wasn't a big issue for me- the PM is a training tool and all I need is speed, power data and cadence (on the fly data).

The P2M was really great I'll have to say, the only reason I swap it with Pioneer's PM is a good bargain and my aversion from ugly looking head units such as Garmin or the Powertap Joule GPS that I was using in the past


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:23 am
Posts: 169
I'm not too sure where the peril is in changing chainrings. I'm sure everyone will have their own opinion, but it's a couple of extra screws in addition to the regular chainring bolts. Never seemed concerning to me, and I've changed rings frequently without issue.

Side bonus: they're in the process of releasing a new mount for the transmitter that will eliminate the need to remove little screws. You're back to just chainring bolts, so it can't be all that bad...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 15
Quote:
'm not too sure where the peril is in changing chainrings. I'm sure everyone will have their own opinion, but it's a couple of extra screws in addition to the regular chainring bolts. Never seemed concerning to me, and I've changed rings frequently without issue.


There is a little wire between the triangular controller box and the sensor. This wire is extremely fragile and has no strain relief or anchoring at the ends, so it can't even hold the weight of the controller box dangling. If you aren't incredibly careful, it will pull all of the tiny connector wires out of the control box and permanently destroy the unit. If one of the chainrings gets even slightly jammed into place, freeing it will probably rip the wire out. Letting the box dangle will rip the wire out. Knocking the loose box with a hand or tool will rip the wire out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad-mouthing the unit, everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Pioneer gives true left/right readings, but to do that, they had to use a crank-arm based sensor on both sides (otherwise they would have had to design and manufacture both a spider-based sensor and crank-arm based sensor). That means they will always have that fragile wire -- but they really should make it more durable.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the clearance issues with the crank-arm sensors. To mount the Pioneer, I had to change the BB-mount brake on my Madone from Dura-Ace to the (wonderful but expensive) Eebrake. The Dura-Ace brake interfered with the crank-arm sensors.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:33 am
Posts: 330
Location: Geeeeelong!
I'd be interested to hear people’s opinions of the computer, particularly the SGX-CA500 as I am looking for a replacement for my Edge 500; unfortunately the Garmin 510 is plagued with software issues and the Garmin 520 appears to be full of bloatware. :noidea:

The Pioneer computer seems to be filled with cool little features such as being able to customise all the data pages, layouts, wifi, etc… Obviously I will be missing the pedal balance as I am using Powertap(s) but I am curious as to how you go about getting the software off the unit; does it need to be uploaded to Pioneer’s Cloudware before saving the file to Golden Cheetah or can you take the file straight from the unit (a’la Garmin or mass storage).

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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:20 am 


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