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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:55 am 
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Would anyone be kind enough to confirm if I have this right.

For 2015, all mechanical and electronic RDs are short cage/55mm, except the following: Athena Triple is long cage/82mm and Veloce (10 speed) is available in both short cage/55mm and also medium cage/72.5mm.

Thanks.


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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:55 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:59 am 
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all in tech docs.

the 55mm short cage dimension has been around for 15yrs at least.

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So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:40 am 
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And your point is what exactly?


Last edited by Frankie - B on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
deleted the quote.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:07 pm 
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I admit some bewilderment that Campy doesn't offer a longer aka mid cage length aka 72.5mm length in addition to a short cage for redesigned 2015 Chorus and Record.

Reason is, some will want these nice Ultrashift groups with 50/34 + 30-32/12 and chain wrap doesn't make it with 55mm cage length.
So if you live in the mountains and you are not super strong, you either have to run an Athena triple or Athena triple length cage with 50/34 if running a 32t largest cog cassette.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:54 am 
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Don't the current short cages take a 29?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:18 am 
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The current short cages take a 29T cog, and a 30T too.

So do the older ones. Which was my point earlier - that the basic geometry of a Campy RD has not changed in a long time.

Campy spec is 29T max and 33T capacity for a short cage 11 spd RD. I think they are only saying 29T because that's the max available in 11-spd. A 12-30 cassette is available in 10-spd and I'm running it with an older RD which has the same dimensions.

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_25_Technical%20manual%20-%20Mechanical%20groupsets%20rear%20derailleur%20-%20Campagnolo_REV00_07_13.pdf

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:52 am 
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bj,
You didn't say what crank chainrings you are running on your 10s set up.
Are you running a 50-34 crank? Is so, 50-34 = (16) + 30-12= (18) = 34t chain wrap which exceeds the Campy spec for 55mm short cage by 1 tooth. Presuming you size your chain for Big-big, is Small-small a bit sloppy (slack chain) with the short cage with your set up?
thanks


Last edited by Frankie - B on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
Deleted the Quote. Please, please, please use reply in cases like this.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:42 pm 
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You are correct in saying 34T exceeds the spec limit of the derailleur. Even 33T is stretching things in my experience, so in these cases it's safer to make sure the big-big is OK, and let the chain go slack in the small-small.

My setup is unusual in that I needed a ultra low gear setup for my cross bike that gets used on gravel trails on the south downs, and the compact wasn't doing it.

I ended up installing a Shimano Deore mtb crank with 28-40 rings, paired with a 12-30 cassette. The total takeup needed for this is 30T and the older Centaur RD handles it fine. Needs a Deore FD of course which the shifter handles fine as well.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:03 pm 
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We might also be able to make some other guesses:-

- 29t is the max Campag compatible size at the moment, but only until people, like possibly Interlock Racing Design, starting making Campag compatible cassettes with sprockets as big as 32 or 34. And people are also saying that Shimano/SRAM 11 will work with Campag, which opens up more possibilities.

- If all 2015 11 speed Ergolevers and derailleurs are Revolution 11 and there is cross compatibility that opens up the possibility of using something like a SR Ergolever with an Athena Triple RD. Or you could perhaps swap the cages over.

I am not sure even if for 2015 the Far East manufacturers still make road triples.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:28 pm 
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2015 Chorus and Record shifters will not be backward compatible with any current 11s Campy front/rear derailleurs because of change in pull ratio. Athena pull ratio and derailleurs will not be changed for 2015 based upon press reviews therefore Athena Powershift shifters will be backward compatible with all current Campy derailleurs including Chorus and Record.


Last edited by Frankie - B on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted the quote. Highdraw, in case you are looking for the 'reply' button, it is right next to the quote button. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:19 am 
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Definitive answer including 2015 data.

1. All of the following assumes that the frame and hanger dimensions are as per Campagnolo specs. Other possibilities may exist outside of these frame parameters in particular cases and the specs do err a little on the conservative side in some cases as within the range of frame specs that Campag give, small dimensional differences can affect exact chain length and therefore overall capacities with correct chain tension in big to big and small to small combinations.

2. As Bikerjulio says, 11s RDs pre MY2015, back to late 2009 releases are 29T compatible. Prior to that, very early MY2009 RDs had to have the H screw bushing replaced to acheive 29T compatibility.

3. Athena 2015 is mechanically unchanged from 2010-2014 specification.

4. Changes in RD geometry mean that the overall capacity of the 2015 Revolution Plus RDs is increased by one tooth - so the new 12-30 Cassette available in Chorus, Record and Super Record iterations can be run but only with 2015 RD / FD combination - on the FD height setting is critical to avoid chain rub under the top of the FD cage on the big to big combination. 12-30 cassettes are not compatible with Athena 2010 - 2015.

5. There is absolutely no reverse compatibility between CH, RE and SR 2009-2014 RD and FD and / or gear controls with MY2015 units. We have tried it internally just to satisfy ourselves that this is not marketing spin. We can confirm it does not work.

HTH
Graeme

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:48 am 
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Location: Aix en Provence
graeme_f_k wrote:

5. There is absolutely no reverse compatibility between CH, RE and SR 2009-2014 RD and FD and / or gear controls with MY2015 units. We have tried it internally just to satisfy ourselves that this is not marketing spin. We can confirm it does not work.

Really, just to confirm I understand this correctly, a 2015 shifter will not work with 2009-2014 FD or RD ?

That sucks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:58 am 
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But where you are being remiss Graeme is you are speaking of rear derailleur and cassette capacity in isolation. This does not address true compatibility. True compatibility is addressed by taking into account cage length to accommodate extreme cross chain scenarios. Campy does address this in their literature by defining chain wrap relative to cage length. So saying that a short cage new or 2015 Record rear derailleur with 55mm cage length is compatible with a 30 or 29t cassette does not answer the question. The question is will the cage length accommodate the size and spread of the cassette in addition to the difference in no. of teeth between front small and large chainring and the answer is, a 55mm cage will NOT accommodate a large 30-12 cassette with a 50-34 Campy compact. Crank selection is part of the equation.


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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:58 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:03 am 
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LionelB,
Lack of backward compatibility from 2015 pertains to Chorus, Record and SR.
2015 Athena which is Powershift with EPS style side button IS backward compatible in cable pull for current Chorus, Record, SR and Athena back to 2009.
I will probably purchase new 2015 Athena shifters in fact because I like the lower profile button and they will work with current Campy 11s derailleurs. Powershift versus Ultrashift isn't a big deal to me as I have ridden both. In fact when racing, PS is easier to upshift (down cassette) a gear at a time from the drops. A premium price will be paid for 2015 Chorus, Record and SR.


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