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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1443
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
liketoride wrote:
Wow that does look like a nice ride, I know I am not going to be all I can be for another 2 years but I just want to do everything I can to cut the curve.


The best way to do that would be to buy a power meter and hire a coach, not buy light or aero wheels. Wheels will give you a tiny improvement; good training and instruction on how to race will make a huge improvement. Save the special parts for when you are close to maxing out your abilities.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1089
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
While building upo a light bike is always nice I am not sure if it what I would do if I was a muscular 230 lb rider.

I ride with people who are much lighter than the OP and they are bike destroyers (and there kit o not lightweight). If the OP has described himself correctly as he trains and his strength develops he may find even the strongest light wheels having the odd durability issue.

A strong rider is fast no matter how light the bike. My thoughts are not for a very light wheelset but for something that can take the abuse of a powerful rider.

Durace/CK hubs 28F 32R and something like the DT Swiss RR585 rim or maybe the Kinlin XR300 if you want low weight.
As for the areo rims no offence but the frontal area the OP's body will present will reduce the effect that any areo wheelset will give. If the OP can get his position right that will have more of an effect and it's cheaper.

Aero kit does not make a rider fast the rider makes the bike fast. Aero kit helps a fast rider be a little bit faster.

My 2p worth.

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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:57 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Please tell me what op means, I can't figure it out.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Location: Surrey UK
Original Poster, the first post or person to post on a topic in an online forum, per Wikipedia :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
Posts: 187
Thanks for that. When I ride on sat I ride flat ground and I run really hard as this is the only time I see good riders around and by myself I usually ave 21mph over a 45 mile stretch. I do agree that safety is most important to me. The reason I don't want to race is because I don't want to crash at 25-30 mph plus I don't want to spend more money because me or someone else made a mistake.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Group rides are as dangerous as races. At least in races everyone is paying attention.

My two serious crashes were in group rides. No race crashes (yet) in about 80 races.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:20 am 
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OP - In case I missed it, when you compared the TCR to your FELT - did you have the same set of wheels on both? Possible reason for variance?

I'm at 190 lbs (I wish as strong as you) and in the search for 'reasonable lighness' have gone through at least three sets of wheels that were just not stiff enough, it felt like I was doggin it in sprints and on the hills ever time. My last set was 1400 grams on 24/28. I've already been schooedl by some of the wheel builders here and decided listening to their experience saves me money in the end and I get wheels that work for me.
I wonder if there some way to find the 'tipping point' of rotating weight vs stiffness - not taking into account aero.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:23 am 
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eric wrote:
Group rides are as dangerous as races. At least in races everyone is paying attention.

My two serious crashes were in group rides. No race crashes (yet) in about 80 races.


Agreed. Sometimes I've felt group rides can actually be more dangerous simply because there isn't nearly as much focus as there is in races. Carelessness starts to show through far more often, particularly when your riding in a group with varying levels of pack experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:47 am 
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rustychain wrote:
Mr. Gib,
I share this experience you describe so well. I tried to explain it to the folks at Zipp and was told it was impossible as they (Zipp's engineers) could not reproduce it in their testing. :roll:
It was the most terrifying feeling I have ever had on a bike (and I have had my share). Thanks for the confirmation of our "impossible issue"
I fear the quest for data points outweighs the understanding of what makes for a good wheel set. Some of us must learn from personal experience I guess


Yeah, damn scary. I don't see why Zipp says it's impossible. Makes sense - lateral forces combined with the compression can do it. I loved the Zipps, but I feel so much more secure on high spoke handbuilts. If you haven't tried them yet I recommend you build a set with the H-Plus Son Archetype. Very solid in a 28/32 build. Weight not too bad.

I love light stuff but for us bigger guys, light wheels are not worth the risk or maintenance hassles.

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Mr.Gib got it right


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:02 am 
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Posts: 23
6'1, 190 here, used to be 225# in my college sports days but have lost most upper body mass since cycling and stopping lifting. My "lightweight" wheels are 24/28 white industries with Kinlin, 2x front and rear. These feel strong to me for the power I put out, and I imagine you can lay down even more at 230. I wouldn't consider a lower spoke count or traditional WW wheels. Just not all parts are made for us, and that's fine.

I agree with poster above. Spend the money on a power meter and coach instead. Gains will be much more significant.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:00 am 
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yes i road both bikes with the same wheels but the tcr did not have the light extras like the felt. Aerolight pedals, sella SLR seat, zipp carbon sl handlebars, KCNC seatpost and the 12 reds with full ceramic bottom bearings. So I cant say the bikes were apples to apples because they were not. All i can say for certain is that when I was riding the TCR I felt like I was working twice as hard and i was going slower. I agree that it would be smarter for me to get a coach if i want to go faster and down the line that is not a problem but this was going to be for xmas and i want to open up my presents and go outside slap them on the bike and have a big old smile on my face and i cannot do that if i get coaching sessions for xmas. I have just picked up this sport and i have not ridden in packs very often so i might very well be that guy that hits someone so i will be paying even great attention to the road when i am out there. I do not know how to turn the greatest but on strait roads i can get it going. so i need more practice turning into corners before i even thought of getting out there to race. Like i have mentioned i have not been riding that long and most of the riding that i do is going home by myself. i only get to ride with other people on the weekends and there is nothing like it, as all of you must know. i have a question about ti spokes if i am running 28-32 do you think they would be okay? they would save a ton of weight and i was think if there is that many maybe it would be fine for me? just asking.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
I weigh 90 lbs less than you and I wouldn't use TI spokes. The very small weight savings is not worth the cost and reliability issues. Ti spokes are signficantly less stiff than steel, which makes a weaker wheel.

Unless you are doing uphill-only races, you get more performance from better aerodynamics than from lighter weight. The whole "rotating weight" being "worth" 4 or 8 times other weight is largely a myth- the actual effect is so small it can be ignored.


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