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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Courious question.. can a 11 speed cassette body (DT Swiss) be added to a wheel without redishing. The reason I ask is I installed one on a wheel and it seems the wheel sits closer to the left.non drive side. Is this wierd and possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:32 am 
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It should require redishing. Not a lot, as DT and others have "cheated" and gone with 131mm axle spacing, but I believe it has to move over about 0.4mm.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:41 am 
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thisisatest wrote:
It should require redishing. Not a lot, as DT and others have "cheated" and gone with 131mm axle spacing, but I believe it has to move over about 0.4mm.


Are you sure? If they upped the axle from 130 to 131, I don't know why they'd need a redish. The hubs were spaced for C11 before, and the S11 is just a hair wider.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:56 am 
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I am going to check it with the dishing tool and will find out what is the case. I had plans sticking with 10 speed stuff, so I ordered a set of Farsports 1250 clinchers. Shortly after that decision my fingers got happy and I ordered a DuraAce 9000 group. Now I got my self in a bit a dillema because the Farsports is 10 sp only, so I am going to have to rebuild the rear with a 11 speed hub. I do have a set of Bontrager D3's for now and have the 11 speed cassette body on those. Well this 11 speed sure does cause problems.. good way of picking up the economy.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:09 pm 
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What you're seeing is expected. Assuming you installed the Shimano 11sp body on a DT hub that was Shim 10sp, you have changed the cassette body out for a longer one, and the NDS endcap to a shorter one. The rim should move closer to the NDS chainstay than before. You will need to redish the wheel.

Any 10sp Shimano compatible wheel that has a cassette body change, assuming the hub locknut OD remains at 130mm, will need a redish since the longer 11sp cassette body pushes the hub flanges toward the NDS.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Would it matter if the 11 speed DT Swiss cassette body came with a end cap.. that is what I used. Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:59 pm 
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for reference...

http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2012/10 ... -some.html


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:25 pm 
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BdaGhisallo ..you're right. I just checked the dish and it was pushed to the left by about 3mm.. This conversion is kind of a PITA.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:36 pm 
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It's not ideal, but it's what we have to deal with if we want to convert existing 10sp wheels to 11sp.

You only have 130mm in which to fit everything: endcaps, cones, hub shell and cassette body. If you introduce a new variable in there that is longer than the existing setup, as with this cassette body, something else has to shrink to maintain the 130mm dimension. It's no big deal if you don't mind the rear wheel being 3-4mm out of dish!!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:26 pm 
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BdaGhisallo wrote:
It's no big deal if you don't mind the rear wheel being 3-4mm out of dish!!


I don't get it. If this drawing is correct, there would be no need to redish. It looks like it's off~.5mm below, but that is only because they didn't center the 1mm longer axle. If you do, then the dish should be the same with 10 or 11. I suspect some caps are not correct if there is 3-4mm offset. Like I said earlier, DT hubs were previously spaced for C11.

Image

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/05/01/11- ... breakdown/

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Campy puts their first cog closer to the dropout.
You add 1.85mm to the right side,
You subtract 0.85mm from the left side:
Net +1mm overall.
So the right side is sticking out 1.85mm longer than before, but should only stick out 0.5mm longer (due to the 1mm longer overall axle). That leaves 1.35mm extra. Dishing to the right 0.675mm will add that much to the left axle, subtract that from the right axle, everything is centered.
I don't know where I went wrong in my previous post, but this seems correct here.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:47 pm 
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WMW,

It's easy. Look at where the hub flanges are in the diagram. The rim in an existing wheel is anchored to those flanges by the spokes. In the 10sp setup, in the lower half of the image, the hub flanges are further over toward the DS of the hub/cassette body combination.

When you look at the 11sp setup in the top of the image, the flanges have shifted a few mm toward the NDS to accomodate the longer 11sp cassette body. The NDS endcap has been shortened to allow the hub shell to shift and still ensure the the overall locknut OD remains at 130mm (for most manufacturers).

Because the rim is anchored by the spokes to the hub flanges, as you move from the lower 10 sp setup to the 11sp setup, the rim will move leftward in the image by the same distance as the hub flanges do. In order for the converted 11sp wheel's rim to be centered between the dropouts, ie between the outer faces of the hub locknuts, the rim must be dished to bring it back closer to the DS locknut. If you didn't do this, the rim wouldn't run in line with the front wheel and would be a few mm left of the centerline of the bike.

Now DT have helped a little by making the outer locknut dimension on the 11sp setup 131mm, but the rim will still need to be re-dished.


Last edited by BdaGhisallo on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:15 pm 
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You got it.........PITA and more $$$$$. These companies have this game all figured out


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:41 am 
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BdaGhisallo wrote:
When you look at the 11sp setup in the top of the image, the flanges have shifted a few mm toward the NDS to accomodate the longer 11sp cassette body.


It isn't "a few mm"... it's 0.5mm. And that is only because they didn't center the axle. When you do, the difference is zero.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:20 am 
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Keep in mind, though, that not all 11sp hub conversions will have that 131mm OD to play with. I believe that most will stick with 130mm.


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