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Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:34 am
by artray
Carbon fiber and aluminum are at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Soon as moisture is present and it will be i.e wet/damp roads or living near a coast then galvanic corrosion will occur and this crank will bite the dust. I have had this happen on a frame with a alu seatpost, the whole frame was wrecked. This crank needs a rethink IMO .
Mattias Hellöre :thumbup:

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:34 am
by Weenie

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 pm
by RichTheRoadie
I know it looks like aluminium, but do we know it is? I realise it probably and most likely is, but I'm just curious...

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:44 pm
by bura
BikeTart wrote:I know it looks like aluminium, but do we know it is?

This is exactly my thinking. Mathias' as well as some other comments are way too definitive for me.
We may wait for the pics Ted promised us.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:50 pm
by bikedoc
My guess is they needed money so took deposits on something that doesnt exist to help cash flow. We know already that no one is getting what they put a deposit on as the design keeps changing.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:31 pm
by Mattias Hellöre
Based on experience.

Aluminum - galvanic corrosion to carbon fiber is a very apparent problem.
Magnesium - the same applies here, even worser as slightest scratch on surface does let the Mg rot very quickly, likes to burn up your swarfs.
Titanium - too heavy and very hard to machine and requires stable machines and good tooling - not exactly cheap either.

Then you are running out of possibilities.

The only alternative is left here - Aluminum, I have hands on experience on aluminum in various constructions, I can say anodized aluminum is the worst possible material to bond on carbon fiber, the glue bond will release from the anodized surface faster than you eat up your Jell-O.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:04 pm
by runner999
This raises and interesting point about aluminum/carbon bonding methods. How is the bonding of aluminum spindles and pedal thread inserts different as seen on most carbon cranks? We also see aluminum mixed with carbon on many bicycle components. Please clarify how this is different. :roll:

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:07 pm
by topflightpro
I too have experienced issues with galvanic corrosion between carbon and aluminum. My System 6 is flaking apart at the joints.

My other thought on this design is what is to keep the crank arms from twisting? I could see that being a problem, though I am no engineer.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:11 pm
by ZeroG
I will have a full explanation on the design at a blog I have been working on which will have detailed information on the design, the changes, and the construction. I am fully aware that this this is a radical change from the previous design that we did the pre-order .. but sometimes it's right in the thick of battle that you figure out how to win the war. This design is incredible on so many fronts as it solves the all the problems I had with previous designs. The photo that was posted is a process photo and there are several elements to the design that are yet to be revealed including the the aero cover.

The most exciting thing about this design is the attachment of the tubes which do not rely on bonding nor press fit. I am taking photos of the construction process because the technically minded will appreciate the details of a radical design.

I'm almost finished with the blog and will post the address shortly.

Thanks,

Ted

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:49 pm
by CarpetFibre
:popcorn:

This is entertaining to watch in many ways. I look forward to seeing what you've come up with Ted, although I will need serious persuasion to ever swap out my Claviculas.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:22 pm
by CharlesM
Interesting assumptions being made...

There are loads of alu/carbon rims around that have had no issues at all. I have a couple of sets that are 6 years old plus with several thousand miles on em and no problem.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 pm
by uraqt
I have said it before and will say it again!!!

Go TED GO!!!!! : )


C

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:22 pm
by elviento
However critical people are doesn't change the fact that it's great to see someone experimenting with new designs and new ideas. IMHO, this makes WW great. :thumbup:

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:28 pm
by itsacarr
+1 on one the simple fact people love to be critical - which is fine - ultimately you don't have to buy it if you don't want it but it's rad that a fellow weightweenie is making something new as a few others have done on this forum. Looking forward to reading more about it.

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:29 pm
by Mattias Hellöre
Charles:
You can have an insulating layer quite easily between an alu brake track and a carbon rim.
Same thing for bonding axles and other applications on a bicycle. You have here something that is groundbreakingly light and arguably takes the highest force on a bicycle IN SHEAR.
So why is this different? Well you need to put a insulating veil between the materials. How will this veil hold up to the shear forces and how much does it weigh?
That graphite fibers produce a large galvanic potential with alu alloys (Alu is anodic to carbon) is a firm established scientific fact. This is stopped by using either CIC ( Corrosion Inhibiting Compounds) or sometimes a sacrificing anode. Please note:
It matters not one iota if the materials are bonded, pressed or kept together w pixie dust.
So I guess the question is: How is this done here?
Quite a few composite tubing manufacturers also specifically cautions against the use of alu with carbon composites..


Source:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/corrosn.html

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:27 pm
by RichTheRoadie
A link from Boeing... An industry where corrosion will be no doubt accelerated due to the constant changes in altitude, air pressure and speed; not to mention the massive differences in speed over a bicycle.

Can we stop speculating until we know the facts?

Re: Ciamillo carbon crank now with pre-launch offer informat

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:27 pm
by Weenie