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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm
Posts: 1238
Scott
Quote:

Yup, and this is why after 20 years of riding nothing but shimano I refuse to buy anything of theirs again. :evil:

I have an entire new Sram Red group sitting here waiting to go on a new frame. (Also ordering Look keo blades to replace my worn D-A 7800 pedals.)

I honestly wish everyone would just boycott the new 9000. Maybe our collective voices would motivate them to either go back to 10sp or make 11sp compatible on old hubs.

I understand and accept progress, but adding an (unnecessary imo) 11th cog is not progress when you have to replace/rebuild every wheelset you use.


It's a good thing you weren't a Campy user when they went to 8sp (I believe it was at that point) and created a new cassette spline to suit that made obsolete and incompatible ALL Campy cassette hubs prior to that!

If you don't like the thought of having to buy new 11sp compatible hubs, stick with 10sp. There will be plenty of 10sp hubs floating around for a few years to come I would expect.


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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:09 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:58 pm
Posts: 155
I'm having trouble finding a 1.85 mm cassette spacer. They are listed on websites but aren't available yet. My LBS says they probably wont be available for some time.

I have a set of Enve 1.25's with the new DT 240S 11speed body but I want to run a DA 10 speed cassette. I wonder if I can use a couple of 1mm spacers??


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
2 1mm spacers will very probably work. There's normally much more than .15mm clearance between the lockring and frame, or chain on the small cog and frame.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Any idea when the powertap 11 speed freehub is coming out?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Sorry if this had been already covered.<br /><br />It appears that dt swiss supply a hub body that will convert 10 spd to 11 but it appears that the wheel requires re-dishing.<br /><br />http://www.ffwdwheels.com/assets/Downlo ... im11sp.pdf<br /><br />Any others view or knowledge?<br /><br />I have a set of Reynolds 46 that I'd like to convert - dt 240 hubs

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:46 pm 
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The 11sp freehub body provided as a replacement is longer than the 10sp body, since the 9000 11sp cassette is 2.85mm wider than the 7900 10sp cassette. And because the locknut OD remains at 130mm, this will necessarily push the hub toward the NDS of the bike. The rim will move by the same amount that the hub shell is shifted over. That's a long way of saying that the wheel will have to be re-dished to bring the rim back towards the DS of the bike and to center it between the dropout faces.

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that Mavic FTS cassette hubs will be 11sp compatible as they are, since you already have to mount a spacer on the body before you mount a 10sp Shimano cassette. I am not certain of the width of that spacer, but you'll be a lot closer to 11sp compatibility than with any other hub built for 10 sp Shimano cassettes.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:04 am 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
I'm having a set built with White Industries T11 hubs right now. The new hubs look awesome and are 11 speed compatible. Just use a spacer for 10 speed Shimano.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:17 pm
Posts: 51
If it works for Wayne Stetina, it will probably work for you

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Features/ ... a-Ace.html


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:03 am 
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Here's a shot of the change to DT swiss cassette body geometry to facilitate 11sp compatibility. You'll see how the hub flanges get pushed over to the NDS. In order to keep within the 130mm dropouts, you'll need to lessen the distance between the NDS flange and the NDS dropout face. You can see that the wheel will need to be re-dished with a body change.


Attachments:
dt swiss.png
dt swiss.png [ 64 KiB | Viewed 2031 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
What I don't get is why zipp 2012 wheels need to be sent back to zipp to get a redish when the freehub is swapped to shimano 11 speed.

Stack height of a campagnolo 11 speed cluster compared to a 11 speed shimano is only 0.2mm less... (this is my calc from the tech docs i've found on both.)

I believe zipp are just going to replace the freehub without a redish on pretty much every single wheel they get.

Can anybody that has campagnolo 11 speed freehub and cluster compare it to a shimano 11 speed freehub and cluster please.

By my reckoning, they are now virtually identical freehub and cluster height.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:11 am 
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Is the current Zipp 10sp Shimano freehub body the same length as their 11sp Campy compatible body? If it is then you are right and a redish probably isn't needed. However, if the 10sp Shimano body is shorter, and Zipp dished the wheels to maximize the lateral strength of the wheel, then a redish will be needed.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
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Location: London, UK
I've not looked at my DA wheels, but if it's only 1.8mm difference in cassette width overall then it should be possible to make 11 speed fit a 10 speed hub since my ones at least seem to have some spare space I would think:

If you could use a lathe to take 1mm off the cassette body flange or by undercutting the last sprocket, then take up the rest using a longer lockring. Of course this might not work with all wheels and destroy the RD if you overshift, but as a way of saving buying a new wheel it is worth looking into.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am
Posts: 1626
Really depends on the hub. You may be able to get away with it on some hubs, but not all for sure.

Also, it will depend on the spoke lacing, as well as the chainstay clearances.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:31 pm 
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I'd hazard a guess that if you wanted to, you could put a 11 speed cassette (but only say a 11-28) onto a 10 speed freehub, and providing the lockring engages ok, you could mount it up and run it.

This is given the fact that a 10 speed requires a 1mm spacer on the 10 speed freehubs, because there is sometimes an issue of the derailleur hitting the spokes (with say an 21 or 23 top cog).

You would be be out by 0.8mm overall... Not much really, and providing your not running a 12-23 (biggest small cog being 12, and smallest big cog being 23 in 9000 cassettes), you will be able to use the lowest gear without it interfering with the spokes, and highest gear without interfering with the seatstay.

I'd love to get a 11-28 9000 cassette and try it, but i'm still paying off the wheels.

Anyone with a 11-25, or 11-28 9000 cluster want to try it for me :)


Last edited by metal on Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:31 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 71
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Is the current Zipp 10sp Shimano freehub body the same length as their 11sp Campy compatible body? If it is then you are right and a redish probably isn't needed. However, if the 10sp Shimano body is shorter, and Zipp dished the wheels to maximize the lateral strength of the wheel, then a redish will be needed.


I think all v7 hub zipp wheels are probably dished to somewhere between shimano and campagnolo freehub dimensions as the freehub/axle assemblies are interchangeable.

i.e. shimano is 35mm, and campag is 36mm (I believe), so they probably dish the wheels for a 'virtual 35.5mm' freehub.

This way, they just change the locknut drive/non-drive-side dimensions by 0.5mm either way to bring them to the specs required for either cassette.

To get to '11 speed shimano' specs, they are effectively 1.5mm out at a guess, which at the rim, is too much by their standards :roll:

Odds are the 'send in and upgrade' option for 2012 zipps is just to cover themselves legally, and to also ensure quality control on the 11 speed shimano freehubs only being fitted to v7 hubs and nothing else.


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