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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:20 pm 
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True but i do not speak for him or his shop i was merely relaying his advice, I take full responsibility for whatever flak ... I dont care I have no axe to grind, was just passing on a convo that seemed pertinent to the issues in the original thread. Like i said, take or leave it, feel free to disagree.

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Yep...that is EXACTLY how they all break.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 6:58 am 
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All three? Lol


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:37 am 
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Certainly something in the way it is being set up.

I would check the method used for chain connection: do it wrong and chain can catch in mech and as it pulls through it wraps mech backwards. It looks like failure originates at the bolt, but something has to give and this is just the weak-point.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:47 am 
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Maybe it's time to admit that carbon just isn't suited for all and every application. Just some of them.

And tbh, composites 101 says "don't copy your metal design in cf and expect it to work"

They've redesigned all the other pivots to reduce the stress, why not that one?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:49 am 
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Or maybe the other pivots have been redesigned so it looks more carbon fibrey, or for increased logo space, rather than any sound engineering reason.....


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:38 pm 
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All the kids want carbon fibre these days...and titanium. Just put those 2 words on anything and we'll buy it. It must be good if its made of Cf and Ti.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:53 pm 
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ultimobici wrote:
gitsome wrote:
I'm not doubting that the mechs failed, but we're talking about 3 or 4 instances. That's not that many failures at all, especially as there don't seem to be any of them actually replaced as warranty that I can see.


Mine was replaced under warranty. Sadly it had to come back to the UK to be inspected prior to it being replaced and as I was touring in the Alps, it effectively meant one bike was out of action for the rest of the Summer.

When the aluminium bolts failed the previous Autumn, they were replaced again under warranty, with the titanium variant that they replaced.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:21 am 
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I wrote to Campagnolo twice requesting information on this issue and received no answer. However, an authoritative source, one well known to many readers of this forum (I'm not being coy by concealing his name: anonymity wasn't requested but I'll assume it's implicit), I'll post this note the shop owner sent to me because I think it's quite informative:


"I think the key to commenting on this is the frequency by which you define "prone" Surely early generation Red were prone to this, even with a loose definition of prone, and Shimano virtually never have a problem like this, but Campag seems to fall into the middle. However I think it's important to note that it isn't necessarily Campag's problem. Campag designs their pieces as a system and they really don't seem to take into consideration how they function when you start to vary from their package or from what they intended. Shimano on the other hand considers things like variations in chainline, chainstay length, hanger length, chosen crank, chain etc... which is why they never seem to suffer from this. Put a Campag group on a threaded BSA frame with a 68mm shell and use all Campag parts and I doubt you'd ever see a problem with it. However each time you introduce a variation from that intended setup you increase the chance of a failure. So maybe using a PF30 frame increases the chance a little, but taken by itself again not too likely to see a problem, but then mix in an aftermarket crank, chain, move the chainline etc... and it becomes more "prone" to failure than say Shimano.

I know this isn't a definitive answer but I hope it helps to illustrate the point, that so many factors have to be taken into account. I think it's pretty safe to say that even if they are "prone" to failure it's still not that likely when you look at the percentage of failures vs the number of units sold."

KAC

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:06 am 
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I've owned the first generation Super Record since it first came out. Have been riding and racing since then with tens of thousands of miles on the same group. I've even crashed on 3 occasions, twice on the drive-side. The group is visually looks like its been through a lot. The rear derailer has even been bent a little and does not get a long well with a lot of wheels as it tends to rub the spokes when you really torque the bike out of the sadly from side to side even with the hangers straight (checked by myself and shop mechanics using a rear derailed hanger straitening tool) and with the screw limiters set correctly. But it still runs strong, performs just as I got it when it was new, and despite the rear derailer and spoke issues I've never had it go into the rear wheel.

The 2009 SR group is now on my "crit" bike. I built up a bike with 2014 Super Record late January. The bike has exactly 3,230 miles and has been raced almost every weekend all the way through the beginning of May. It's seen almost every road condition you can think of while on the way to numerous top tens, podiums, wins, and even conference championships, all in USA Cycling sanctioned races. Bike has never been crashed and does not have a single scratch on the bike. I have always done my own work on my bike since I've started riding in 2009. And I have been working at an internationally well-known shop where the mechanics have been looking over my work to make sure it's ok.

Well, I road to a crit practice about 20 miles away from home and rolled into the parking lot. The gearing was set in the big ring and the 10th largest cog (where I always have had it set, habitually for the past 5 years, when starting from a stop or slow roll), in this case a 25 tooth cog. After rolling into the parking lot I gave one easy push on the pedals and I hear a little snap. Nothing loud or any grinding of parts, just a rather quite audible click. And this is what I saw:

Image
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:26 am 
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Location: Cape Town - South Africa
you mentioned you crashed a few times, i assume with the bike and rear mechanism as per pics.
a possible hair line cracked could have just finally giving up the ghost of the mechanism.

i have had 10 speed record, currently have 11speed record , super record and super record eps on my bikes, although crash free, but no issues like this.

dont forget campy have a 4year warranty. not sure how it works, otherwise claim from your insurance :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:54 am 
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He actually said "bike has never been crashed and does not have a single scratch on the bike"


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:50 pm 
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DCnoJ,

I'm confused. Is the broken derailleur the new one (it appears that's the case) or the 2009 model? Was your entire drive train Campagnolo or was it a mixed set-up? I'm asking because (obviously) failures like that could have devastating consequences.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:42 pm 
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I crashed a few times on the original 2009 groupset which still runs fine on older bikes.

The broken rear derailer is from the never crashed group set which was purchased this year in January which is the newer generation (you can tell by the red "11" logo) which is installed on a new bike that was purchased at the same time and has never been crashed.

I've also owned bikes with Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, and Veloce and have never had issues nor came close to having the derailers go into the spokes of the rear wheel if that means anything.

I don't believe the derailed went into the wheel. Where the derailer was on the cassette when it happened, the lack of markings on all parts, the fact that I've ridden over 3,000 miles on it with no incident, the fact that I rode an hour prior to the occurrence through varying terrain without even hearing the slightest rubbing from the spokes on the derailer suggests that it didn't. It's strange. I'm going to try and warranty it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:07 am 
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DCnoJ wrote:
I crashed a few times on the original 2009 groupset which still runs fine on older bikes.

The broken rear derailer is from the never crashed group set which was purchased this year in January which is the newer generation (you can tell by the red "11" logo) which is installed on a new bike that was purchased at the same time and has never been crashed.

I've also owned bikes with Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, and Veloce and have never had issues nor came close to having the derailers go into the spokes of the rear wheel if that means anything.

I don't believe the derailed went into the wheel. Where the derailer was on the cassette when it happened, the lack of markings on all parts, the fact that I've ridden over 3,000 miles on it with no incident, the fact that I rode an hour prior to the occurrence through varying terrain without even hearing the slightest rubbing from the spokes on the derailer suggests that it didn't. It's strange. I'm going to try and warranty it.


That's the same group I have on my Parlee Z-3. I must confess, this potential problem worries me...a lot.


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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:07 am 


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