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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:18 pm 
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I run campag 11 and really don't understand why people instit on recon cassettes and after market chains.. Why would ya. You hate a bike that shifts really well? Usually too the bikes in question have plenty of other places to save weight from..

I did a ride on my 11.6lb z5 recently that involved 130kms and 3800m of climbing( 12460 feet in old money, one climb at 3.8kms and 11.5% av gradient and another at 5km and 9.5% av gradient.. Brutal stuf). You just wouldn't ride that kinda stuff with a cassette made of cheese. You'd never make it home.
If you can't auctally use it in testing conditions what is the point of having parts on a bike that are likely to fail on you if you really go out and push your self..?

There are a number of very light bikes here that I don't beleave can be ridden normally in daily riding.
They are defantly special occasion bikes. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:15 am 
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Have to tell you though that the KMC SL Chain shaves a few grams, is easier to install and remove than campy, and quieter IMO. Really good chain. I wild not use a recon cassette though


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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:15 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:24 am 
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how about sensible gram hunting first..? :noidea: sorry but..... campag chains last longer ( check out the tour mag chain test ), will shift better with the campag cassette, and if kept clean and lubed make just about no noise...

there are a lot of much better places to save weight on your bike rather than compromising what is the some of the best shifting on the market. saddle combos, bottle cages that are not Arundel Mandibles, removing all the steel bolts from your bike, light wheelsets, segmented cabling... many many places.. there 10 speed stuff is great but there is no 11 speed chain that warrants the 10g weight saving over the shifting performance and durability of the campag stuff.

i like crank out the kms on my bike, i didn't get the latest SR gruppo to have average shifting

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I think lightest depends on the compromises you're prepared to live with and the type of riding you do.

When I was in London I decided I would not compromise on saddle, pedals, tyres and bottle cages, but would gradually equip my Z5SL with weightweenie parts like light carbon wheels, aluminium cassettes, gravitas brakes, kcnc skewers, etc. That was nice and worked well for what I would now call flat rides.

Now I live in Switzerland and regularly do longer rides on nice roads with 10-20% gradient. Perversely my bike's weight has thus gone backwards to full Dura Ace (including skewers), C24 wheels and 3T team parts with only AX lightness seatpost, i-links, headset insert and bolt tuning as weightweenie parts. Reason was that the carbon wheels and lightweight brakes just did not stop well enough on 20% downhills, so I switched back and am now enjoying the functionality of great brakes, stiff wheels, ace wheel bearings, skewers that grip like a beartrap yet can be undone with one finger...

My experience so far is that there is quite a lot to be said for using parts with the best real-life function as it makes my cycling more enjoyable than saving a few grammes here or there.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Part of the discussion will be the argument over what is "real"...

I've seen a few nice light bikes in the past few years but i very simply wouldn't ride virtually anything under 12 pounds.

That's in no way a slight to bikes under 12, it's just the reality of the way I ride and where and the fact that I am not super light for my height at 150ish pounds. I would ride most of the 11-12 pound bikes I've seen on better rooads and not sweat it at all. But I would call toss in the towel completely at sub 11 simply having seen parts fail.

I also discount the massive suggested milage of some of the super light stuff because I've seen some folks make huge concessions while riding to protect their rigs fragile nature. But that's again just a personal pref. I wouldn't want to do that but that doesn't mean that the folks that do are not only unbothered by it but are in fact enjoying it.


I would also say my scale for rideable has changed by a full pound plus over the past 6 years or so. Parts keep getting better as moulding tech and lay up knowledge keeps getting better. I would guess its maybe time to change my scale by another half pound or so...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:02 am 
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That's kinda of purpose for this thread. How to - if possible - build a super light bike that is a real rider - not just something to look at. I tried it with my CA and got it under 12 without any real compromises - but I'm stuck now unless I compromise - or spend über-serious money on custom super light components. Some of which do not perform as promised --- some AX Lightness Products come to mind --- and of course my favorite POS the Cane AER.

BTW, has anyone ridden the Cannondale EVO Ultimate - or out it on a scale. I believe the claim is under 12 lbs for the kit, and that's not bad for the price IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:58 am 
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I reckon it really depends on your weight.. If I was 65kgs
My combo could be 110g not 145g, I could run a sub 900g wheelset, I could use ax brakes..
Maybe some crazy german bars.. But at 85kgs 5.3kgs as about as light as I can go and still ride the bike like I stole it. Maybe a lighter frameset... But I'm about to start a summer crit series with the bike
And I really love the way it handles.
It's all relative.. Some one 40% lighter than you can use lighter components. Mid 11lbs is totally workable though.. As long as you can afford it

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:10 am 
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+1

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Location: Sewickley, PA
[quote="JWolf"]That's kinda of purpose for this thread. How to - if possible - build a super light bike that is a real rider - not just something to look at. I tried it with my CA and got it under 12 without any real compromises - but I'm stuck now unless I compromise - or spend über-serious money on custom super light components. Some of which do not perform as promised --- some AX Lightness Products come to mind --- and of course my favorite POS the Cane AER.

BTW, has anyone ridden the Cannondale EVO Ultimate - or out it on a scale. I believe the claim is under 12 lbs for the kit, and that's not bad for the price IMO.


Exactly, EVO ultimate comes in at low 11's without pedals with mediocre parts and is a solid bike, so low to mid 11#'s these days for a REAL solid riding bike is common.

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2012 Cannondale Supersix EVO SRAM Red 12.5#'s

2011 Cannondale Carbon Flash 1 17.9#'s

http://cbevo.com/2012_cd_supersix_evo_31.html


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Are these weights being quoted include pedals? Hard to ride a real bike without pedals.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:04 pm 
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The evo claims to be low 11s with out peddles and bottle cages..
An easy way back to 12lbs. And for the moneis it's worth I could build you a parlee or cervelo like mine at a real sub 12 with 2 cages and a set of peddles. And I'm not a dealer so I wouldn't be getting any thing for crazy cheap..

Let's see one on some scales first..

I know which I'd rather ride.

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Last edited by sugarkane on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:12 pm 
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That is without pedals. Here is the image: (attached)



In case that doesn't work, this link should:

https://mail-attachment.googleuserconte ... 8&sadssc=1

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Location: Sewickley, PA
sugarkane wrote:
The evo claims to be low 11s with out peddles and bottle cages..
An easy way back to 12lbs. And for the moneis it's worth I could build you a parlee or cervelo like mine at a real sub 12 with 2 cages and a set of peddles. And I'm not a dealer so I wouldn't be getting any thing for crazy cheap..

Let's see one on some scales first..

I know which I'd rather ride.



Mine is 11.1 w/pedals bottle cages, GPS mount, 10.8 without, very easy 100% reliable.

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2012 Cannondale Supersix EVO SRAM Red 12.5#'s

2011 Cannondale Carbon Flash 1 17.9#'s

http://cbevo.com/2012_cd_supersix_evo_31.html


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Location: Utah
That is a great weight for a really ridable buld. WOW.

I laugh at myself, becuse I get frustrated when I hear low numbers like that with mostly OEM parts because my 12lb bike is a

Parlee Z3 SL-----about 1030gm (56.3cm TT)
AX - brakes, post, saddle
THM -crank
I-link- housing
MCFK - post collar
emporelli- cages (2)
Extralight-headset & stem
Fyberlyte- chainrings
KCNC- Skewers
Recon AL - cassettee
KMC- lightweight chain
ENVE 1.0 - Fork
ENVE 1.45 wheelset (with Extralight-rear & Alchemy front===995 gm)
Super record 11 speed group (whats left :) )
etc....

And it comes in at 12.08 lb

Then I see builds that are 11.1 with;
--SRAM Red
--regular--- everything else (with jsut a couple of exceptons, like the SISL crank which is awsome)
--Lighter pedals (mine are Keo Ti---so about 40gm heavier)
--Wheelset that is typical (not super-WW)

....and I go, " WHAT" :twisted: :cry:

Even if that frame is about 700gm = 1030-700 ===330gm
so that would make my same build (with all that WW $$$$) like 11.38 (WITH THE EVO FRAME)
.......still not as light as the 11.1 build with OEM parts

I just don't understand the weights I see sometimes (I believe them, I just don't know what my problem is, you know).

CBRE
This is not ment to disagree with you at all, or start an agrument about the valididty of the EVO weight.

I guess it is just something I don't understand. (maybe it is because I use a 56 size frame and some of the weights are for much smaller frames, so even less weight, but it can't be THAT much less weight. Can it?)

Again, not ment to create contentions or anything. I totally belive the weights that are mentioned, but I just can't get it, in my efforts in WW-ism.

Does that make sence



CBRE,
I took a look at you build and it looks great :thumbup:


Last edited by carbon2329 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Carbon2329 I'd expect your build to be lighter too.

I'm building a porky aluminium frame (1400g) to under 13 lbs with mostly the same stuff as you. Lighter forks but heavier wheels, and a really heavy saddle.

I think it's more about the ride though. my bike has a heavy saddle (300g!) and aluminium seatpost because I don't like sitting on carbon. I'm not a big guy at 55kg but I didn't like flexy light stems so I have a heavier stronger one now. Handlebar shape for me is far more important than weight.


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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:36 pm 


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