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 Post subject: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 114
Thinking of ordering a Custom Z1 as my next bike. They apparently have a carbon option that they claim is very comfortable - and that's the goal of my next build. The most comfortable - light weight - exotic bike I can build.

That said, the lack of a sloped top tube on size 54 or 55 seems a bit out of date.

Does anyone have experience with this frame and any comments - suggestions.

I think I will build this one with Campy EPS.

Your comments are appreciated.


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 Post subject: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 114
I'm actually thinking to ask them to duplicate the Cerelo R5 geometry if they can.


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 Post subject: Parlee Z1 Project
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:27 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:25 am
Posts: 149
Location: MN
Why not just get a R5 then? If you want custom geometry and a sloping tt the Z3 is your ticket.


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7410
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
JWolf wrote:
Your comments are appreciated.


Why do you want a Z1 when, clearly, by your comments, you desire an R5 ?

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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 68
Location: NYC
I ride a Z1 for a year now, and have a few comments:

The only reason for the abundance of "sloped" top tubes nowadays is that it enables mass manufacturers to reduce the number of different frame sizes required to provide an acceptable fit for most riders, for pure cost reasons (it was invented by Giant in Taiwan back then). Before this, sloped top tubes = girl's bikes. This became especially an issue when production moved to (monocoque) carbon fiber, where each frame size needs a separate, expensive mold.

Now, on the other hand, the only reason to go for a Z1 over a Z2/Z3 (which otherwise are on the same level as the Z1), or -to that end - many other fine bikes from other manufacturers, is the ability to get a fully custom sized frame, which eliminates the need to use shortcuts like sloped frames.

Quote:
That said, the lack of a sloped top tube on size 54 or 55 seems a bit out of date.


It is only out of date because of said mass manufacturing cost-cutting fashion. IMHO, the primary reason for a Z1 is to evade mass manufacturing fashion. So, in my very personal view, a sloped Z1 is kind of missing the purpose. Personally, I bought it because it has a proper men's bike top tube slope angle (= 0°) :wink: - but hey, I am also preferring external cable routing (and I am not that old).

That said: each to his own - if you really like the look of sloped frames, go for it, the frame rides fantastic and is rock solid. I think EPS is a also a good choice, as by the time you want to buy a new frame, everything will likely be electric and you should therefore better plan for e-wiring now. :beerchug:


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 388
Location: Sydney, Australia
Dont you already have a Cervelo R5ca and S5vwd? Both recently purchased?

Your R5 is already light as f*** and given you are looking at the comfort tubing, its highly unlikely the z1 will come out lighter without some seriously WW parts AND tuning. My Z3 has the comfort tubing. Its nice and all but as far as weight goes its a little on the high side, especially when you consider what they cost. But dont get me wrong, its a beautiful bike and it cures me from lusting after others.

I personally think getting a Z1 with a sloping top tube is a bit of an aberration, they just look so good with a flat one. If you want compact, get a Z3. Maybe even consider trying to fit a Z5sl since they are very light and have compact geo. They also have the benefits a of tapered steerer that the handmade frames do not.

Incognitus - AFAIK Z2/3 custom sizing works just the same as on the Z1. There is just a hell of a lot more craftsmanship (read: man hours) in the Z1 seat stays.


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1200
Pretty sure you can have a full custom z1 with the sloping tt if you want..

And the ride quality of such a bike would be other worldly compared to cervelos more expensive offerings..

Personaly I'd Take a Z1 over the Z3 for the seat stay junction alone.. but it's a very personal preference :up:

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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:44 am
Posts: 419
Location: Oztralien
Z1s are also available with semi-sloping geometry up to 8 degrees, and can be upgraded with one of five custom crafted tube sets: the benchmark UD, super light SL, extra stiff XL, compliant CL, or visually alluring X-woven. Hidden, internal Di2 or EPS wiring is also available.

Copied from the Parlee website.


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:49 am
Posts: 354
Location: XNA
I would contact Parlee about different tubing. When I ordered my Z1 (4 years ago) they highly recommended the UNI tubing for almost everyone. However, they have come a long way in ride tuning, using different tubesets in the last few years. As mentioned earlier you can get a sloping Z1, and I think that the twin seat stays are reason enough to go with the Z1.

Do you like the handling of the R5, your body position or both? At the time I ordered mine, I was on a mass produced bike that I really liked my body position..but didn't care for the handling. I ordered my Z1 accordingly.


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 Post subject: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 114
Thanks all. I really appreciate all of your comments. My riding history is a bit strange as I was a competative road racer about 15 years ago - in my 20's - local only - and was forced to give it up due to a health condition. Tried riding again about 5 years ago and still was unable to ride without pain. Only about 6 months ago did I realize that I could ride again without pain and have jumped back in with both feet. My first bike 6 months ago was a Colnago M10 which I have since given to my riding partner. I bought because I had ridden a Colnago before and though it was an easy / safe choice.

Since then, I have purchased the R5CA and S5 VWD, two very different bikes, and I like both of them, but have been looking at the Z1 online and seem to drawn to it. It might well be because it looks more like a bike that was made back in the 90's. Round simple looking tubes, non-integrated headset, old-style geometry.

I asked the question about the geometry because the change to sloped doesn't seem to me to be economically driven. Most of the high end brands still offer bikes in all of the standard sizes - so it doesn't seem to be saving them anything in terms of less molds or builds. Just seems like the industry has changed it mind with respect to what "normal" is with respect to road racing geometry.

That said, my last bike - in the 90's was a Merlin - with a non-sloped top tube - and I don't remember having any problems with it - on longing for any thing different back then.

So - why the shift to sloped?


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 68
Location: NYC
Quote:
I asked the question about the geometry because the change to sloped doesn't seem to me to be economically driven.

AFAIK, It is really economically driven. :smartass:

Quote:
Most of the high end brands still offer bikes in all of the standard sizes - so it doesn't seem to be saving them anything in terms of less molds or builds.

Aren't most frames are only available in 3-6 sizes, much less than the traditional 1 cm increments (excluded, sometimes: flagship frames)? :smartass:

Quote:
Just seems like the industry has changed it mind with respect to what "normal" is with respect to road racing geometry.

Trends are ultimately not defined by the high-end, but by the mass-market and what it perceives (read: being advertised as) as technologically advanced, which is driven by the requirements and valid profit interests of the industry (nothing wrong with that).

Good info here:

http://www.bikecyclingreviews.com/Sloped_or_Level_Top_Tubes.html

Cheers :beerchug:


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:16 am 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Posts: 5698
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Thinking the only reason to go custom is the geometry is only half-ish right.

Getting a bike with the exacting geometry you want AND in a tuned tube set to your desired taste is what bikes like the Z1 are mostly about.

Adding to that your choice of custom graphics and finish and the build quality are also more than worth casual mention... (Sure you can custom paint anything but the level of detail Parlee do the Z1 in shouldn’t get overlooked regardless of the colors someone sprays on)


Get with your local Parlee dealer and get them the base geometry you want and see what slope they can manage.

This is an old review but still semi relative to their build...: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=5544



Pretty silly to think all manufacturers started or still make sloping bikes for one reason... Some folks like slope, some like ISP, and some like neither... B!tching about the suggested blanket motivation is pure pontification and a waste of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 68
Location: NYC
Quote:
B!tching about the suggested blanket motivation is pure pontification and a waste of time.


Huh - who's b!tching? Must have missed that. :noidea:

Anyway, some more good reads 'on topic':
Livestrong on compact frames

Richard Sachs on compact frames

Quote:
I'll get flamed for this, but "compact frame" is the term
given to all stepchildren of Giant bicycle's early 90s attempt
at a three-sizes-fits-most mentality. in the beginning, it
was thought to be more efficient to produce fewer sizes
and have available more seatpost/saddle assemblies,
etcetera to tweak the three (or so...) sizes into possibly
fitting more folks. my opinion is that if they did not have
the alliance with the ONCE team in spain, few would have
paid attention back then.it's amazing that it became such
an aesthetic - newer riders look at these types and are used
to it - to the point that they cannot stomach a level top tube
frame. despite the shorter seat tube and the longer seat post,
i still think it as a copy-cat design, not unlike the straight
blade forks which were a colnago original attempt to dial
out some of the problems inherent in matching curves in
tens of thousands of forks. there's a saying i always remember
when the discussion returns to issues like compact frames
and other cost savings production methods:

"capitalism has a way of absorbing the marginal into the mainstream."

i don't know who it's attributed to or where i read it, but it
resonates with me.
e-RICHIE


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:35 am 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Posts: 5698
Location: Phoenix Arizona
I sat at a table with Richard, Nick Crumpton, Eric Noren, and 4 or 5 other folks and the question came up a little... I asked "what if I just like the way a little slope looks and wouldnt mind a little longer seat post with the chance of a touch more flex if the tube is right?"

Richard, being a pretty practical / straight shooting guy said "you should get what you like".


I would guess that quote/context applies to the OP here.


Now that the threads gone(in rough terms) from "I like the look of slope and want a Parlee Z1sl" to "why should I want slope" I'm no place near thinking enough of myself to pontificate about what motivates all of the current manufacturers and customers on their geometry / frame style and or thinking that one answer could possibly cover everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:35 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Parlee Z1 Project
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 68
Location: NYC
Stupid me...and I thought the question was not "why should I want a slope", but rather - quote OP: "So - why the shift to sloped?".
I am scratching my head a little to why you seem to believe this is about pontification. The OP had a valid (and interesting) question and I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge. Now, I don't share my war stories with the gods of cycling every night, but I also did not know that that is a mandatory requirement for participation on this forum.

As I said earlier, - quote myself - "if you really like the look of sloped frames, go for it, the frame rides fantastic and is rock solid." Nuff said.

Anyway, whatever, and Cheers! :beerchug:


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