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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:10 pm 
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Posts: 91
Are light hubs only for shallow rim builds and climbers? I have been considering stock Bora 50 wheelset or Corima 73s laced in light hubs, from some quick calcs they both come up around 1250g

Doing some research it seem the consensus is not to save weight on a rear hub due to reliability/durability and lack of spoke tension? Extralite claim to test/simulate there hubs with a 'strong 90kg rider'

The new SP hubs can get 140kgf DS / 90kgf NDS is this adequate for big efforts and crit style racing?

I'm thinking 20/24 with Sapim CX-Ray spokes, or could I reduce it due to the rim depth?

I really like the 12k weave and deeper profile of the Corima, or should I just go for the proven Bora 50s?


Last edited by AZK on Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:16 pm 
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Posts: 402
You forgot to mention your weight.

No; light hubs are not only for shallow rims or light riders. It always makes sense, to save weight, but only to a certain point. A hub consists roughly of a hubshell, bearings, sealing and axle. You need to consider, which of those parts you'd want to save weight from, and how much durability you want to sacrifice in order to save a few grams. IMHO the sweet spot of hub weight is around the DT 240s or CK R45 area, which are around 220 grams rear and 100 grams front. Those are both solid build and durable hubs. If you go any lighter, you're scarifying to much. Some of the lighter hubs are sealed poorly, which reduces bearing life significantly, or they have fewer or smaller bearings.

It's always the classic compromise between;

inexpensive, durable and light,

And you can only get two out of the three.


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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:16 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:49 pm 
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Posts: 91
Multebear wrote:
You forgot to mention your weight.

inexpensive, durable and light,

And you can only get two out of the three.



Im 100kg +/- 2kg, Not the typical ectomorph cyclist build. I am planning to cut down to lower 90s over the next year.

Could I choose 3 if its Expensive Durable & Light :lol: ?

For reference I rode a 82/101 PX wheelset with 16/24 lacing. They never broke or had any failures but I did have to get them re-tuned after a few months of racing as both wheels were hitting the pads. the sticker says the spokes are max 120kgf.

I'd really like to go for extralite sp or carbon-ti sp but it seems to much to ask for ?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Seriously, I don't understand the need to save around 140 grams of non-rotational weight (they are rotating alright, but not of any importance to this subject). The hubs are in the center of the wheel which means, that there's no difference between saving 140 grams on the hubs or the saddle, handlebar, stem, seat post or your bodyweight. Don't get focused on the complete weight of the wheels. Focus on the rim weight, rim width, rim shape and number of spokes. Hub weight is just so irrelevant.

And with your 100 kg, there wouldn't be any difference.

You might want to read THIS, before focusing to much on hub weight.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Thank you for the link, I understand the above with regards to rotational weight. Going for DT240 sp or Extralite sp will only be around a £80 saving over the whole wheelset. Saving 140g for £80 extra seems worth it to me & I presume many WW members will pay that premium for non-rotational weight loss in a item such as a frame.

My only concern is durability, if this is not up to standard I'll go for the hubs you suggest, or the Boras.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:50 pm 
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Boras are definitely a fine choice. Campa make really good hubs and very stiff wheels. Can't go wrong with Boras.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:25 am 
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Posts: 875
Are deep section wheels somehow different from any other wheel? Is there any reason why a lighter hub would be less aero than a heavier hub? This seems to be less of a question of a light hub with deep section wheel issue and more of an "am I an idiot for spending $800 on hubs that I will trash the axles and bearings in six weeks?" issue. That of course is a more personal question related to your weight, riding style/frequency, and tolerance to spending money unrelated to aerodynamics. If you're concerned about durability, take the marginal or non-existent aero penalty for the increased spoke count, and up it to 24/28 (regardless of the hub weight).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:15 am 
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kulivontot wrote:
Are deep section wheels somehow different from any other wheel? Is there any reason why a lighter hub would be less aero than a heavier hub? This seems to be less of a question of a light hub with deep section wheel issue and more of an "am I an idiot for spending $800 on hubs that I will trash the axles and bearings in six weeks?" issue. That of course is a more personal question related to your weight, riding style/frequency, and tolerance to spending money unrelated to aerodynamics. If you're concerned about durability, take the marginal or non-existent aero penalty for the increased spoke count, and up it to 24/28 (regardless of the hub weight).

I never mentioned aero once. All the builds I've seen with light hubs use light rims to build an ultra light wheelset. Possibly for a light rider who likes climbing more than crits.

Deep sections tend to be on "stronger" wheelsets that take more abuse. Maybe my title should have been are light hubs durable enough for crit racing to prevent people from making stupid assumptions.

And the thread was started to prevent anyone being an idiot spending $800 on on unreliable hubs.

It's worth noting that even with a custom build option factored in the boras still cost more.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:10 am 
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Thread should be titled "op had already made a decision and is looking for opinions to tell him he's right.". To assume that one is choosing deep section rims for aerodynamics is not absurd, as that is pretty much 90% of the reason anybody buys 808's.
If you want more durable wheels, add more spokes. If you want stiffer wheels, pick wider hubs and add more spokes. If you want to win the final sprint, then reduce weight anywhere you can, including the hubs.
There's no contradiction here


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:27 am 
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kulivontot wrote:
Thread should be titled "op had already made a decision and is looking for opinions to tell him he's right.". To assume that one is choosing deep section rims for aerodynamics is not absurd, as that is pretty much 90% of the reason anybody buys 808's.
If you want more durable wheels, add more spokes. If you want stiffer wheels, pick wider hubs and add more spokes. If you want to win the final sprint, then reduce weight anywhere you can, including the hubs.
There's no contradiction here


Interesting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:42 am 
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Posts: 91
Did some more searching and got a definite answer.

Image

viewtopic.php?t=137453

Rules out the extralites :(...

kulivontot wrote:
take the marginal or non-existent aero penalty for the increased spoke count, and up it to 24/28 (regardless of the hub weight).


If I went for the DT 240s or CK R45 which lacing pattern and spokes would you guys recommend on the 24/28, or is this determined by the rim/hub combo already?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm
Posts: 273
I recall that Extralite hub was damaged from the lacing with the straight pull spokes or the rarity of the silver version not being strong enough due to the lack of anodizing. Extralite rarely offers Silver hubs. the guy also stated "It's actually the second hub I've had a problem with climbing the hill that it gave out on. The other was not an Extralite hub."
If you search hard enough, you'll find damage on all brands.
I like how people have this idea that all brands don't have failures.. Chris Kings fail, and people never talk about it because CK probably handles is appropriately. Extralite would replace your stuff too, but since they have no US presence, it may take longer to warranty your failure, and creating a sour experience with them as a brand.
I love Chris King as a brand, but they're stuff is overpriced IMHO and DT240 hubs are overpriced mediocre performing hubs. For the price of a new DT240, you can get a Tune Mag 170, which has been so far bulletproof for me on multiple sets of wheels. If you're going DT, just get the 350 rear hub. It's cheaper and performs the same as the DT240 with a minimal weight penalty.
Extralite hubs weigh around 124-138g for a rear. Depending on your weight you should avoid a hub that light. Products like that are for a small niché of light riders who aren't hard on parts. I had an Extralite SLX rear hub and the old locking bushing system kept coming loose after rides. It was annoying, then I searched and found out it was a common issue. Loctite solved it. Other than the small issue, those hubs with Ceramic bearings were some of the best hubs I've ever ridden. Butter smooth.

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Last edited by Denavelo on Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:14 pm 
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Denavelo wrote:

you can get a Tune Mag 170, which has been so far bulletproof for me on multiple sets of wheels.

Extralite hubs weigh around 124-138g for a rear. Depending on your weight you should avoid a hub that light. Products like that are for a small niché of light riders who aren't hard on parts. I had an Extralite SLX rear hub and the old locking bushing system kept coming loose after rides. It was annoying, then I searched and found out it was a common issue. Loctite solved it. Other than the small issue, those hubs with Ceramic bearings were some of the best hubs I've ever ridden. Butter smooth.


Awesome feedback, thanks for the user review. So you reckon I could go for a Tune Mag 170 @ 100kg body weight? I mainly race crits.

One reason I liked the Extralite was the SP design for extra spoke tension, But I believe the higher flanges on the Tune Mag 170 would also contribute a lot to wheel durability?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Don't overlook the aerodynamics of the hub as well. From talking to engineers on the product team good bit of what helps the new Roval CLX64's outperform their predecessors was the new more aero hub design. The robust DT internals hold up rather well too. They are a really great all around fast wheelset.

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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:23 pm 
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ProfessorChaos wrote:
Don't overlook the aerodynamics of the hub as well. From talking to engineers on the product team good bit of what helps the new Roval CLX64's outperform their predecessors was the new more aero hub design. The robust DT internals hold up rather well too. They are a really great all around fast wheelset.


Aero hubs....and here I thought I was starting to understand the complications of a wheel build :oops:


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