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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:50 am 
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Posts: 60
I concur with Edman on this, the amount of wear to me looks pretty minimal, especially given 3000miles on the one chain. Lining up the pictures is important otherwise it can be misleading (our eyes are pretty bad at comparing adjacent shapes and sizes when the tolerances are very small...people in my lab group have done studies to prove that!). The worst looking one to my eyes is the 15, not too surprising really. 16-19 is pretty much impossible to tell in any of those pictures.

Best way to tell would be to get some vernier calipers out. Actually I could think of better ways, but most people don't have access to decent scientific microscopes :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:08 pm 
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Since the issue of chains was introduced, any perspectives on KMC (X10SL or DX10SC) compared to Campagnolo Record? How about the X10SL compared to the DX10SC??

KAC


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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:08 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:57 am 
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Pretty much "middle of the road", according to the "Tour" test:

http://www.tour-magazin.de/services/qtr ... _2011/#/44


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Thanks! Very nice review. Much appreciated!

KAC


Last edited by Powerful Pete on Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please don't quote previous post. PP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:00 pm 
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I know a lot of people use chorus cassettes but how many miles can I expect out of a record or super record cassette?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:35 pm 
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That depends on which cogs are used the most. If it's a few of the Ti cogs, expect about half the life that you'd get from steel.

If you really want to maximize cog life, start with 3-4 new chains and a new cassette. Rather than using only one until it's well-used, then switching to the next, alternate the use of each chain more frequently. If you get a reasonable amount of use from each chain and don't encounter new-chain skip, then keep alternating and you'll never get new-chain skip until all of the chains are well-used.

Campy chains don't wear like most brands. Using a 12" precision rule to measure the elongation may show almost no elongation, even after several thousand miles. It's wise to also use the internal tips of calipers to monitor the roller spacing. It will be in the .200-.205 inch range, when the chain is new. I alternate to a new chain when the roller spacing increases to about .220 inch, then keep alternating more frequently, after that. A chain is truly shot when the roller spacing increases into the .235-.240 inch range, even if a rule shows little elongation.

FWIW, I expect to get about 12,000 miles from three chains and one steel-cog 11 speed cassette.


Last edited by DaveS on Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Location: England
Hallelujah, someone speaks some sense! I've always run 2-3 different chains.....it really does work!!! Although I spent over an hour trying to convince a bike mechanic last week it does!! I finally give up!
Funny though, he never admitted ever trying it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:24 pm 
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So many variables.
Chain condition, riding conditions (typical weather), type of riding (mountains or flat lands)

I know DaveS has been talking about rotating 3 chains for years. Makes sense to me. So I do a lazy version of that on my mtn bike by rotating 2 chains.
But havent on my road bikes.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:42 pm 
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A note about riding in the mountains. If you spend a lot of time in the little ring and the 19-25T cogs, while climbing, you may find that Ti cogs can be too worn to mate with a new chain, with only a few thousand miles of use. I did that with a Record cassette, trashing the 19T cog after only 4,000 miles with one chain that showed little elongation. The teeth were obviously hooked and skipped with the second new chain that I tried with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Yeah a first thing to consider is what cogs you use the most....keeping in mind that more teeth spread the forces out - so with a Ti 23 tooth vs a Ti 17 tooth, the 23 will last much longer assuming same number of times each rotates with a chain.

I run the big ring a lot and cross over to the 19 (always steel) 21 and 23 of a 25t cassette. In my case I save my 2 Record cassettes (21/23/25 in Ti) for a pair of lighter use wheelsets as those Ti cogs see alot of action.....but again with more teeth than the smaller cogs that's offset a bit. On my daily high mileage wheels I run chorus (all steel and I'm paying only about $95 USD for each).

End result for me is about the time the steel 19 is dying so is the Ti 21.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I know that 3-4 chain thing makes a lot of sense but 3-4 record chains is quite a bit of money.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Another thread for reference

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67526

there are also many more.


Cheers guys :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:18 pm 
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I actually see very little wear on that cassette, the valleys are perfect still. What I do see however is damage to the sides and tip entry/exit ramps of the teeth themselves. This tells me that the damage is being done when the chain is changing gear, rather than when spinning along. Looks like the chain is twisting a little as it derails. This unfortunately is a property of narrower chains and will be worse on 11 speeds than 10. Either that or the chain is very tight on the cogs and not sitting down into the valleys

True wear elongates the valleys and tends to wear on one side of the teeth, hooking them. Here its all at the tip of the teeth. This is not wear but damage

I'd be tempted to take a small file and tidy up the teeth and continue to run it

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:24 pm 
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You can't tell a whole lot about cog wear by looking at the teeth. The proof of a worn-out cog is new-chain skip, where the chain skips over the top of the teeth and won't transmit the load, under a high chain tension.

Changing the chain more frequently may not help at all, particularly if the 132.4mm or 5.213 inch measurement is accurate. I'm doubtful of that, however, since a new chain will measure about 5.200 inch. I don't even consider a chain to be half-worn until it's reached 5.220 inch.

Ti cogs wear much faster than steel cogs, but the wear should have no effect at all on shifting. It should only become a problem when a new chain is installed. Worn cogs will be revealed when the chain skip over the teeth, when pedaling with a high chain tension.

If only some of the Ti cogs skip with a new chain, that would be normal. If you get chain skip on some of the smallest steel cogs, that would not be normal. It would suggest that you've been climbing in the little ring and those small cogs. Don't do that - use the big ring and any cog except the largest, where the chainline is too extreme. For example, a 39/12 and 53/16 are about the same ratio, but the latter will provide better cog life and lower chain tension.

A well maintained 11 speed chain can last for 3-4,000 miles, but it's quite likely that you'll get new-chain skip, if you don't alternate between several chains, in the process. Using only one chain for that long can cause the teeth to wear-in to fit the smaller diameter rollers and cause new-chain skip. The chain does not need to be excessively elongated to cause this problem.

FWIW, I expect to get up to 12,000 miles from an 11 speed cassette and 3 chains.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:00 am 
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Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I was going to say from the picture that it seems run in rather than worn out. At least with 10-speed systems I tend to run one chain and cassette until it stops working. And if you want to eke a bit more life out of a cassette, rather than throwing it out if a new chain skips, use another wheel for a week then try it with the chain again. Often it works, perhaps because new chains wear in in their first 200 miles, then only wear slowly.


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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:00 am 


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