Cyclefit UK and my LOOK 595 - ARGH!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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encomium
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:01 pm

by encomium

Hi all

I really wanted to post a recent experience I had with Cyclefit UK which has left me in a real bad situation (my opinion according to them).

I used them a few years ago to do the usual fitting and I was quite impressed with them at the time. So when I got my new LOOK 595, I called them up and asked if they could do the cutting of the ISP. Considering their measurement for my centre of BB to top of saddle is 77.9cm (to a 10th of a centimeter accuracy) I though they would be the best people to take the necessary measurements and cut it for me. I was very nervous about this whole cutting of ISP thing, so I kept telling the mechanic to cut off as little as possible, as one would assume (as there's no reversing the process).

Anyway, I collected my frame several days later, and left the shop. I was in a bit of a hurry and never thought to check. I have since left the UK on a 3 month work assignment and took my bike with me, with the plan to build it up when I got here, which I did.

It is only then I noticed that the mechanic had cut the post "to my height" using 1.5cm of the epost spacers! I couldn't (and still can't) fathom why you would require to drop the seatpost by that much, and considering their measurements are to a 10th of a centimeter, c'mon, what was he thinking. To top it off, now that I've tilted my saddle slightly (Fizik Aliante) it's about 0.5cm shy of 77.9cm, which means I have to add another 0.5cm spacer!!

Ok, I know that this is within LOOK's adjustment range, but I am not happy about it at all as I feel like I have to add 2cm of spacers for something that shouldn't even have been there is the first place!

I've emailed Cyclefit and explained the situation, but they basically are saying that that's the way they do it and if I had wanted it different I should have specified!

Sorry about the long post, but this is really driving me nuts and every time I look at the bike I feel really sad that it isn't "perfect"

I'm at a loss of what to do...
Last edited by encomium on Sat May 26, 2012 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

sawyer
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by sawyer

When you say 1.5cm of e-post spacers, you don't mean the elastomers, but the actual plastic spacers?

That sounds like they've gone a bit far and that your instructions were clear enough.

Don't like that place anyway. Their standard "fit" is a touring fit, they aren't customer-friendly, and many of the brands they carry are overpriced ... Serotta for example.
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by Weenie


encomium
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by encomium

yes, 1.5cm of spacers. not including the elastomer.

jasjas
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by jasjas

Have you anything in written down? did they use a diff saddle to get the measurement? if you gave them your saddle and your bb to top measurement, then i'm sure you've got a case, but as the only win for you would be another frame or its cost, i doubt they ll play ball with you :evil: Small claims court perhaps? you can represent yourself and the threat of it maybe enough?

If you use an off cut of the seat mast to make up a 1.8cm spacer and then use a thin std plastic spacer of 0.2cm, you can get it to look abit cleaner, it ll look like you ve just got a thin black line around the seat mast between the frame and the new spacer(assuming a wht frame?) by no means perfect but maybe your best option.

good luck!

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

How did the e-post arrive in their hands? Without any spacers in it?

If it came to them without spacers then there's no reason, that I can see, why they should add them and cut to that. And then claim standard practice.

They would not cut too much off an ISP using a cappy and then clamp the cappy higher to make the desired saddle height - which is essentially what they have done here. Albeit with it looking a little less drastic give the nature of the e-post.


You would also have a case with regards to re-sale value, which has dropped further given there's an additional 15mm of post gone that should still be there.


Good luck, I'd be pissed if it were me.

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mr_tim
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by mr_tim

I've emailed Cyclefit and explained the situation, but they basically are saying that that's the way they do it and if I had wanted it different I should have specified!


That's your case & claim in a nut shell.

You need to put it in writing to them (not email) that you did specify the height & cut to be undertaken (i.e. to the minimum requirement) & anything else done by them deviating from that requirement is incorrect.

As innocuous as it sounds, you can then contact some like http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ to provide advice on the workmanship undertaken & to provide recommendations to the retailer that a refund is in order. Once you have someone of 'authority' backing you up it would be rare / stupid for the retailer to hold out. If they refuse at that point you can kick off a small claim.

Make sure you keep everything in writing from this point & keep things amicable but firm (not like this... viewtopic.php?f=14&t=103189&hilit=time+pedal). Emails just don't have the firm impact that letters do & are much more firm as a reference point if to be relied upon at a later date.

At absolute minimum you should press for the work done by them to be refunded (which you should be able to get back - I assume they built the bike for you?) & beyond that look for recompense on diminished re-sale or usability of the frame to you (this is a tricky argument tbf as the utility offered by the frame isn't actually reduced, its just aesthetically affected).

You need to push the fact that they hold themselves out to be a premier fitter / mechanic & thus more professionally competent to undertake the specified work than anyone else, thus making the error on their part all the more onerous.

encomium
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by encomium

Thanks for the replies. I thought I was being pedantic, but I'm obviously not the only one who would be pissed.

I did give them my saddle and also the epost without any spacers. Everything was brand new (except the saddle) and I even passed them the epost cutting guide that comes with the frame.

I have been looking at the small claims/mediation websites and have emailed them my query. Hopefully they'll be able to help.

Yes, I thought cyclefit as a "premier" fitter etc would have taken exceptional care with dimensions etc.

I just get more and more hacked off and I've even sent Serotta a link to this thread. They should know who represents them in the UK.

WeightySteve
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by WeightySteve

I imagine the lost business/profit they will aquire from future potential customers who turn away after reading this thread will greatly outweight the price of a replacement frame and happy ending.

Hopefully Cyclefit will realise this before it gets very messy, warn (or even sack) the person who hacked your seatpost and take much greater care over their operations and post work customer service.

otherwise what's the point of them? 'Premier Cycle Fitters' or 'Bike Butchers' who blame wheir customers when they screw up! ?

Good luck getting it resolved, and let's hope Cyclefit see sense soon.

encomium
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by encomium

WeightySteve wrote:I imagine the lost business/profit they will aquire from future potential customers who turn away after reading this thread will greatly outweight the price of a replacement frame and happy ending.

Hopefully Cyclefit will realise this before it gets very messy, warn (or even sack) the person who hacked your seatpost and take much greater care over their operations and post work customer service.

otherwise what's the point of them? 'Premier Cycle Fitters' or 'Bike Butchers' who blame wheir customers when they screw up! ?

Good luck getting it resolved, and let's hope Cyclefit see sense soon.


precisely, I've already mentioned to them that I would take the matter "public" and they don't seem to think that it matters.

In the grand scheme of things, a £2-3k frame vs the negative publicity, surely it would have been a no brainer.

perhaps when this thread has gained enough replies, i will send them a link to it and then they can respond and either resolve the matter or justify their methods.

RichTheRoadie
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by RichTheRoadie

With the size and value of their customer base in London this thread will have little or no impact whatsoever. Good luck getting a resolution.

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Wingnut
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by Wingnut

I don't know what stinks more...the fact they stuffed it up or that they aren't trying to remedy the situation...
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elviento
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by elviento

It seems a bit harsh for the shop to pay for a new frame if the final result with the 25mm of spacers is still within LOOK's permitted range. Somewhere in the middle might be more appropriate, such as combination of some cash + shop credit and future discount, etc.

Of course if the shop is normally a premium place that charges top dollar for everything then it might be different as people would expect perfection.
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Cyclefit
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by Cyclefit

We followed the procedure that is: safest, most rational and most importantly what is recommended by the Look themselves for your particular model (please see link and referenced italicized text as well) -

http://www.lookcycle.com/media/catalog/ ... le_2_4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"1/ Cutting the seatpost
to its height
1 – On the seatpost: Check that the 3
preinstalled spacers are in place"


Furthermore you have rightly been left equivalent adjustment to both raise and lower your saddle to make your situation the most future-proof. This is important not only if you change your saddle (whose overall heights vary) but also if you change your shoes and/or pedals. Shoe and pedal stack heights can also vary greatly and these need to be reflected in your saddle position to maintain optimum biomechanics.

As to the other comment on the thread - that our standard fit is a "touring fit". We will be sure to bring that up with the professional riders that we have had the pleasure to work with, who are have had or are having success on the world stage over the last ten years.

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strobbekoen
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by strobbekoen

I've never seen a professional rider's ISP's cut with spacers included, nor any on this forum. I could be wrong but if a customer brings his bike along with the saddle he uses, and the saddle height required, I'd cut it to exactly that height, as I would do on my own bikes. Keep in mind that the resale value of a ISP frame is affected by how much of the seatpost is cut, so I'd keep it to the exact measurements of the rider ? Not saying you did anything seriously wrong, but I would consult with the rider as well how he wants it to be done before cutting it down. Doesn't take long to ask :)

by Weenie


jasjas
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by jasjas

Reading your reply, i can only say that i'm very glad i did this myself.

The 3 spacers are the chamfered support spacer btn elastomer and epost - the elastomer - red/grey or blk, and a thin plastic spacer btn the elastomer and the seat mast - infact you seem to be working to an older manual - the 3 parts in my 2010 manual (the last yr 595s were made) say the 3 parts are epost, support washer and elastomer.
As the OP is saying his 595 is new i have to assume that he has a recent Headfit style frame and not the pre 2009 models? Yes OP ?????

either way LOOK say measure total new ht and then DEDUCT your prefered seat ht - no where do they say reduce this measurement by 2cm, your argument "might" stand good if it were 5mm but not 15 or 20mm.

I think you just messed up, i assume you can show us all the other 595s you've cut like this?

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