Weight Weenies

Can someone please put the photo's here? I can't see them...

spartan wrote:your local trek dealer should have copy..whitepaper available on trek's dexter dealer site.

Link?

Thanks

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I'm impressed with the weight. They used to be the heaviest $12,000 bike on the market!

No, that dubious honor belonged (and probably still does) to the Pinarello Dogma.

Can you get a built-up Dogma for only $12k?

I didn't think the Treks (frame + fork) were ever particularly heavy. I've seen some decent numbers here on vintage Treks.

Lou3000 wrote:Ultimately, I guess it is the perfect bike to market. Is it aero? Kind of. Is it light? Yeah. Is it stiff? Sure. Sort of the old saying, Jack of all trades, Master of none. The perfect bike for your dentist.

First, thanks for posting the data!!! (previous page)

I disagree the brakes are going to be a big problem, and only because Trek has a massive dealer network, and the dealers simply wouldn't tolerate some sort of fringe maintenance nightmare.

On the "master of none" comment: compromise between various design trade-offs is the essence of engineering. Few people buy a bike for a single narrow specialty. Bikes needs to be well-rounded to win races.

Roeboe wrote:Can someone please put the photo's here? I can't see them...

After a few hours of playing around on the Project One site, this one is my favorite:



Very similar to the pain scheme on my Ridley.

interesting info for the aero weenies. fork/handlebar saved more drag than the frame



src

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B17X8q ... TBDVVFUazQ


2.1 Frame
The KVF tube shape allowed Trek to decrease overall bike wind resistance.
Trek relied heavily on KVF shaping on the head tube, down tube, seat tube and
seatstays. This reduced the frame drag by 60 grams, while simultaneously
improving the structural performance of the frame.
2.2 Fork/brakes
One of the most important components on a bicycle in terms of aerodynamic drag is
one of the first things to see the wind: the fork. Trek attacked the problem with two
key technologies: the KVF tube shape on the legs, and the integrated front brake. Trek
engineers started with the aerodynamic performance of Speed Concept’s 3-to-1-ratio
KVF tubes for the upper portion of the legs, and then blended to a 2-to-1 ratio for the
lower legs for improved performance and weight. The combined effect of optimized
aero shape and integrated front brake decreased aerodynamic drag by 76 grams.
2.3 Handlebar
The other key component on the front end of the bike to significantly affect
aerodynamics is the handlebar. Trek engineers applied KVF tube shaping to
the center sections of the handlebar to further reduce drag by 90 grams

Epic-o wrote:

spartan wrote:your local trek dealer should have copy..whitepaper available on trek's dexter dealer site.

Link?

Thanks

It appears they tested without a rider. Since they claim 70 grams (sic) of drag reduction from the handlebars alone, I suspect that this advantage is considerably less with a rider filling the space behind the handlebars. Air which clears the bars on an empty bike is home free. With a rider, it's doomed anyway.

I like the move to brakes attached at multiple points instead of just one. It's old school new again, actually.

djconnel wrote:On the "master of none" comment: compromise between various design trade-offs is the essence of engineering. Few people buy a bike for a single narrow specialty. Bikes needs to be well-rounded to win races.

I totally agree that you can't have it all, you have to make compromises. I think the compromises in this case are weird. Looking at the depth of the tube shapes, it looks like there was more emphasis on ride quality and weight rather than aerodynamics. However, the bike is clearly being marketed as an aero bike. Hell at 750 grams with a 5 gram paint job, why not just sell it as an ultralight with aero sections.

In the end you have a bike with fairly shallow tubes (even when compared to other Kamm'd frames like the FOIL), a huge, blunt bottom bracket area, a round seat mast, and a downtube no where near the front wheel. Obvious design decisions were made to compromise all over the frame, but then you do something extremely controversial like using proprietary brakes. And not do something as simple as clean up the cabling.

Ultimately, the funny thing about this bike is that given my experience with Trek, the compelling selling point here is that you get a Trek bike (I've liked the recent Madone carbon offerings I've tried but the only Treks I've owned were the Fuel 9.9 when it first came out and the TTX more recently) with their geometry and ride quality, but at an ultralight 750grams. Throw in their dealer network and the awesome Project One and it is a great bike. I don't really need it to be aero. They had me at 750gram Trek Madone.

i like this frameset. wonder how much the brakes weigh. i hate all the marketing mumbo jumbo - oclv 700 hexSL carbon. seems like they are using hexcel im10 carbon which is stronger and stiffer than toray T1000. Made in USA is such a big thing for me, im a sucker for that.

djconnel wrote:It appears they tested without a rider.

I have heard from several people who have spent considerable time in the wind tunnel that testing a frame with a rider on vs. not having a rider un doesn't make considerable differences with the overall drag of the frame. I think Mark Cote and a few other industry guys have said that.

53x12 wrote:

djconnel wrote:It appears they tested without a rider.

I have heard from several people who have spent considerable time in the wind tunnel that testing a frame with a rider on vs. not having a rider un doesn't make considerable differences with the overall drag of the frame. I think Mark Cote and a few other industry guys have said that.

what is the impact/difference a frame makes compared to the drag a persons body makes at say 40km/h?

^ Of course the body has a greater impact on its own compared to the bike. That is not the issue I was raising.

The issue is that the rider/bike interaction is not as great as some make it out to be. You missed the point.

Btw, don't quote the post directly above yours. Frankie doesn't like it.

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i wasnt trying to argue, i was trying to know what the difference is. and how much of a difference does an aero frame make compared to the overall effect your body and frame have.

either way, i think this bike looks clean and i like it. like i said before, im a sucker for made in USA products.