Weight Weenies

Watch the Madone promo video on the Trek website and tell me the narrator isnt Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop!

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spartan wrote:looking at trek's aero results from their whitepaper madone kamm tail is as effective as tradition airfoil.
tour mag aero frame testing is vindicated. venge and cervelo s5 have virtual identical aero overall avg drag

attached frameset weight + vertical compliance charts.
one more detail. the frame will support shimano's new internal battery spec. sweet

Where can I find the white paper?

your local trek dealer should have copy..whitepaper available on trek's dexter dealer site.

The lack of excitement here is palpable. What is it about Trek that generates so little interest, including from me? They're like the Microsoft of high-end bicycles (except their stuff works).

I am impressed that it weighs 750g in a 56cm size. That completely beats the Cervelo S5 VWD,

Please forgive me my cynicism but Trek have incredibly managed to create the holy grail of class leading weight, stiffness and aerodynamics all in one frame - a feat the rest of the industry has found impossible to get close to achieving in ten years.

Well done Trek.

Now let's see the reality.

It always makes me smile when people discount a brand that's been making carbon bikes in the States for longer than most with a better recent palmares than almost any other company. Discounting a product due to their perceived image is as bad as falling for hype...

I'd suggest that Trek achieved most of their aero drag savings by moving the rear brake to under the chain-stays. That configuration is fine for a time-trial bike, but for a road bike completely impractical. Otherwise this does not look like an aero frame.

The Cervélo S5 for example is still vastly more aero-dynamic (based on Treks own numbers) whilst still maintaining a practical position of the rear brake for mechanics and rider ease of use.

tranzformer wrote:I am impressed that it weighs 750g in a 56cm size. That completely beats the Cervelo S5 VWD,

But the S5 is much faster, and weight doesn't matter when you have that sort of aero advantage.

cpanczak wrote:The Cervélo S5 for example is still vastly more aero-dynamic (based on Treks own numbers) whilst still maintaining a practical position of the rear brake for mechanics and rider ease of use.

cpanczak wrote:But the S5 is much faster, and weight doesn't matter when you have that sort of aero advantage.

Please provide link to this aero data. Thanks.

I'm not sure it "beats" the S5, you would probably have to use some sort of formula using the different yaw angles and weighting the values based on how much time someone spends at that yaw on average. I think the guys at FLO did something similar with their wheels and came up with a single number to determine average drag for a wheel. An S5 maybe better for really, really fast, flat riding that sees a lot of 0-5 degree yaw angles, but at slower speeds you are going to see more high yaw numbers and therefore the KVF on the Trek may be better.

HOWEVER, my only thing is that the S5 (and the Venge) achieve similar drag numbers without making massive concessions like integrated front and rear brakes. This chart also entirely leaves out the Scott Foil which is essentially the same bike but with slightly deeper foils and standard brakes.

It is a cool looking bike, I just don't understand some of the design choices. You are willing give up the accessibility and functionality of traditional brakes, but your cable routing remains the same? Why not route the cables behind the stem like the Cervelo and almost all modern TT/Tri bikes. Then you require a proprietary seatmast, but it looks like the same one that has come on the Madone for years, ie round, and not aero at all. And ultimately in the pursuit of some holy grail of aero/light/stiff, the downtube looks like it flairs really wide at the BB.

I guess some decisions look like compromises (the traditional cable routing and fat BB) to keep it rideable, whereas other decisions like proprietary brakes are the sort of thing you would expect to find on the aero at all cost bikes like the S5 or AR.

Ultimately, I guess it is the perfect bike to market. Is it aero? Kind of. Is it light? Yeah. Is it stiff? Sure. Sort of the old saying, Jack of all trades, Master of none. The perfect bike for your dentist.

Lou3000 wrote: The perfect bike for your dentist.

Not expensive enough....

crohnsy wrote:Not expensive enough....

You obviously didn't go through the Project One builder to find out that the 5gm "U5 Vapor Coat" is over $1000 extra. That is a very dentist worthy feature. $1000 for NO PAINT!

Also being a video gamer, that has to be the horse armor of cycling.

I did go through the builder and Super Record EPS with the Vapor and Aoleus 7 tubs just under $15,000...

I stand by my not expensive enough statement. Dentist worthy seems closer to $20,000 + imo

djconnel wrote:The lack of excitement here is palpable. What is it about Trek that generates so little interest, including from me? They're like the Microsoft of high-end bicycles (except their stuff works).

I designed a really attractive ride in that Project One thing. Geo numbers look good for me. If I indulge in the itch to build a new setup this winter, I'll consider the Trek, as long as I can get it as a frame set. Have a good dealer down the street.

I'm not worried about the brake placement.

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