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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:08 pm 
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These things look pretty nice, and have triplet specific non-drive flange geometry. I'm curious to hear all of your opinions on how they compare: http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/10/11/mar ... ts-wheels/

On a related note, in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "offset rims or rims with spoke holes angle to either side to align with the spokes". In that second case, they obviously won't work if the rim is directionally drilled, but I don't see why you couldn't do a triplet lacing pattern with a simple offset rim as long as it was center drilled. At some point, with a big enough offset, your tension balance might reverse and be higher on the non-drive, but I suspect there is some potential benefit for an offset rim on many triplet rims. What's your take on that?


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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:08 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:56 pm 
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http://www.williamscycling.com/assets/i ... Lacing.pdf.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:51 pm 
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gtinut wrote:
http://www.williamscycling.com/assets/images/product%20tech/Bicycle%20Wheel%20Spoke%20Lacing.pdf.



Nothing to do with triplet lacing.. Also the modelling is no where near detailed enough to produce any hard data..
Triplet hubs allow much wider bracing angles ( very good for lateral stiffness ) while keeping the NDS tension high enough to be fuctional to even very good...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:08 am 
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$500 for a pair of WI hubs?!?

Okay. Glad I already have a set of the triplet hubs. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:20 am 
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sugarkane wrote:
gtinut wrote:
http://www.williamscycling.com/assets/images/product%20tech/Bicycle%20Wheel%20Spoke%20Lacing.pdf.



Nothing to do with triplet lacing.. Also the modelling is no where near detailed enough to produce any hard data..
Triplet hubs allow much wider bracing angles ( very good for lateral stiffness ) while keeping the NDS tension high enough to be fuctional to even very good...


Alright mate.

...how do triplet hubs allow for much wider bracing angles? This is determined by the centre to flange and flange diameter, which is not affected by the number of spokes (unless I am missing something obvious?)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:40 am 
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Spoke tensions ;) - for a 'regular' wheel pushing the flange out too far will result in low NDS spoke tensions. I'm sure there are people reading this forum who are better equipped to explain this than me (but I hope the idea is right).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:36 am 
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LOL, I must have been having an aneurysm this morning when I typed that.

Duh. :)

On a slight tangent ( ;) ), has anyone actually experienced a 1:1 hub having too wide a NDS, resulting in too low a NDS tension? Extralite, for example, have a 42mm centre to NDS flange, on the CyberRear SP, which still has enough tension in it. Adding anything more than 5mm to that, would mean the spokes are in serious danger of hitting the chainstays / Speedometer, etc., but even with that extra 5mm, I think the tensions would be passable...?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:11 am 
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TheDarkInstall wrote:
LOL, I must have been having an aneurysm this morning when I typed that.

Duh. :)

On a slight tangent ( ;) ), has anyone actually experienced a 1:1 hub having too wide a NDS, resulting in too low a NDS tension? Extralite, for example, have a 42mm centre to NDS flange, on the CyberRear SP, which still has enough tension in it. Adding anything more than 5mm to that, would mean the spokes are in serious danger of hitting the chainstays / Speedometer, etc., but even with that extra 5mm, I think the tensions would be passable...?




haha....

so the extralites has enough but buy the skin of it's teeth. i push the drive sides on the SP hubs to 125kgf on average and get around 46kgf average on the non drive sides.. now if that tension is much below 40kgf it basically will be slack with rider weight and no effort been applied. That is not a good thing. Even tension on these hubs is really dam important unless your comfortable with half the NDS spokes been along for the ride... its a hub that ( and i have been pushing for ) that 2:1 lacing will take from a very good light weight platform too a freeking amazing one..

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:19 pm 
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That flange spacing for that rear hub is 17.4mm right and 50.7 left. It's mean to be laced radial with the heads out on the left.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:07 pm 
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You want the left flange far out for 2:1 lacing and further in for 1:1.

The stiffness improvement for 2:1 comes from being able to put more spokes on the drive side.
The durability advantage from 2:1 comes from having more tension on the left.



- Position of the right flange is determined by the cassette, so "wide flange spacing" in the rear only means the left flange position.

- 2:1 lacing has a better left side bracing angle, but fewer spokes that do the bracing

- A similar stiffness bias & good durability can be achieved by using thicker spokes on the drive side and tensioning them higher so the left side spokes can also run more tension.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:12 pm 
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I will be commisioning Miche to make me a set of proper 2:1 hubs next year. Got to order 200 pairs though but I have the design workout it will be based on one of there existing hubs but modifies for 2:1 lacing. NDS flange to centre will be 50mm. There will be a large 68mm PCD DS flange and rear hub weight will be about 260g.

So the perfect 2:! hub is coming.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:17 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
I will be commisioning Miche to make me a set of proper 2:1 hubs next year. Got to order 200 pairs though but I have the design workout it will be based on one of there existing hubs but modifies for 2:1 lacing. NDS flange to centre will be 50mm. There will be a large 68mm PCD DS flange and rear hub weight will be about 260g.

So the perfect 2:! hub is coming.


Pics and cross sectional drawings will be welcome whenever you have them ready. Curious what your goal is with the large diameter DS flange, care to elaborate on the advantages?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:24 pm 
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The large flange diameter improve torsional stiffness which in turn reduces tension changes on the DS spokes (and NDS spokes) a bit. It is a marginal effect but it is there. The weight penelty is not high so on balance I think it is worth it.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:43 pm 
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TheKaiser wrote:
in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "[i]offset rims


Doesn't offset rims eliminate all the reasons for triplet lacing and other nonsense? Offset rims get the spokes almost equal in length and equal in tension on both sides of the rim. My offset rims have pretty symmetrical spoke angles on both sides. And pretty equal tension on both sides.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:01 pm 
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RussellS wrote:
TheKaiser wrote:
in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "[i]offset rims


Doesn't offset rims eliminate all the reasons for triplet lacing and other nonsense? Offset rims get the spokes almost equal in length and equal in tension on both sides of the rim. My offset rims have pretty symmetrical spoke angles on both sides. And pretty equal tension on both sides.


On average the left flange is about twice as far from center as the right (34mm vs 17mm). Most offset rims are about 2mm. It will not make the angles equal, but it does improve things (32mm vs 19mm).

This is all basic geometry. If you sketch out your build as if it's a vector diagram you can get a better idea of what's at play.

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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:01 pm 


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