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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 74
So I'm looking for an all-around wheelset.
I won't do any TTing with these and I'm a climber. I'm looking for a lightweight wheelset with alloy braking tracks. I'm a light guy (132 lbs) and I never had a wheel out of true.

Any opinion on the listed models? For this money I can have one built with Pacenti SL23 and White Industries T11. I'd love to hear any opinions to help me to choose. Thanks.

Edit: I wrote Ksyrium SLS in the first version, but I was looking at the new Ksyrium SL


Last edited by nemeseri on Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:08 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:51 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 568
Location: Adelaide, Australia
The Fulcrums, Mavics and Shimanos all have narrow rims (15mm internally IRCC) so that would take them off my list (Unless you have really tight brake clearances)

The Pacenti SL23 rims are decently light and wide so they'd be my pick. The T11 hubs while reliable and have good flange geometries, they aren't 'superlight' hubs. If you're looking to build a lightweight wheelset there are lighter options (Tune/Extralight - or even BHS own brand hubs). But I'd say of the above the SL23/WI hubs would be my pick.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:21 am 
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istigatrice wrote:
The Fulcrums, Mavics and Shimanos all have narrow rims (15mm internally IRCC) so that would take them off my list (Unless you have really tight brake clearances)

The Pacenti SL23 rims are decently light and wide so they'd be my pick. The T11 hubs while reliable and have good flange geometries, they aren't 'superlight' hubs. If you're looking to build a lightweight wheelset there are lighter options (Tune/Extralight - or even BHS own brand hubs). But I'd say of the above the SL23/WI hubs would be my pick.


Sorry. I wrote Mavic Ksyrium SLS in the original title. I was looking at the new Ksyrium SL and it has a new wider rim. And you might think I'm nuts, but I have a wide rim hand-built (h+son archetype + t11) and a fulcrum racing 3 wheelset. And while I do think that the archetypes are more comfortable than the fulcrum 3s, I don't think there is a huge difference in compliance or handling. It might be related to that I'm quite light.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:10 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
I'm also quite light - my racing weight is 54kg, but I'm hovering around 59kg (it's crit season right now...) I recommend the wide rims because they lean into corners slightly better, and they're probably more aerodynamic (why leave the low hanging fruit?). I had to experiment a bit with tyre pressure first though, inflating them to the same psi as narrower rims does mean they don't feel any different.

I used to own a pair of Fulcrum racing zeros - really nice hubs and they rolled well but they were a bit of a 'nothing' wheel - they're not super light, nor are they aero. They're stiff, with nice hubs but I wanted a lot more out of my wheels.

The Mavic Ksyrium Pro SL doesn't have a wide rim, IRCC, only the Ksyrium Elite and Ksyrium Pro feature the 17cm ism4d rim (405g rims) - everything else is 15cm ism4d (370g rims). I was pretty impressed with the Ksyrium Elite wheels, they 'react' as well as some 1350g hoops I've tried (Fratelli FX1722 rims, CX-Ray spokes, Novatec SL hubs), despite being a good 200g heavier. The finish on the Elites was quite thin, doesn't take very much to scratch, I suspect the same will be true of the Ksyrium Pro SL. The supplied tyres were rubbish, do replace with better rubber.

Can't comment too much on the C24 wheels, I've never actually owned a pair - always turned off by the narrow rims.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Pacenti SL23 on WI T11 are perfect. Go with 20F/28R regardless of you weight why for the sake of 20g on the rear those 4 extra spoke make a much stiffer wheel.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:20 am 
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istigatrice wrote:
I'm also quite light - my racing weight is 54kg, but I'm hovering around 59kg (it's crit season right now...) I recommend the wide rims because they lean into corners slightly better, and they're probably more aerodynamic (why leave the low hanging fruit?). I had to experiment a bit with tyre pressure first though, inflating them to the same psi as narrower rims does mean they don't feel any different.

I used to own a pair of Fulcrum racing zeros - really nice hubs and they rolled well but they were a bit of a 'nothing' wheel - they're not super light, nor are they aero. They're stiff, with nice hubs but I wanted a lot more out of my wheels.

The Mavic Ksyrium Pro SL doesn't have a wide rim, IRCC, only the Ksyrium Elite and Ksyrium Pro feature the 17cm ism4d rim (405g rims) - everything else is 15cm ism4d (370g rims). I was pretty impressed with the Ksyrium Elite wheels, they 'react' as well as some 1350g hoops I've tried (Fratelli FX1722 rims, CX-Ray spokes, Novatec SL hubs), despite being a good 200g heavier. The finish on the Elites was quite thin, doesn't take very much to scratch, I suspect the same will be true of the Ksyrium Pro SL. The supplied tyres were rubbish, do replace with better rubber.

Can't comment too much on the C24 wheels, I've never actually owned a pair - always turned off by the narrow rims.


Thanks for the input, it's really valuable. 54kg? Wow.
Also thank you for pointing out the difference between the two ism4d rims.

Interesting to see that everybody prefers the pacenti / t11 combo over these high-end alloy factory wheelsets.
To be honest I had a 10-year old mavic on my first road bike and I was very pleased with it. Obviously it was really heavy, but it was super smooth and durable. That was the most comfortable wheelset I've ever had, even if it had a narrow rim.

My current h+son archetype + t11 wheelset is super comfy, corners very-well, but it could be stiffer. (sapim cx-ray 20/28). That's why I started to look at factory offerings and I think the factory wheels are light, stiff and strong in this list too.

I'm not sure that the pacenti sl23 will give me anything new compared to the h+son wheelset I already own, but it's definitely back on my list now.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:16 am 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
Yeah, I take up a bit of running before/during road racing to slim down - but the raw power suffers (improves w/kg), so I try to avoid it during crit season.

I'm surprised you find the Archetype combo lacking in stiffness. I recently built a BDOP LT alloy road kit (Novatec hubs, CX-Ray, Fratelli FX-1722 rims) and I'm really happy with the stiffness of this build, even though the Novatec front hub is actually worse in terms of flange geometry (the rear is *slightly* wider though), and the build was a 20/24 build. Is it the front, or rear wheel which you find the stiffness lacking?

The Pacenti rims should be a good 70-80g lighter per rim (than the Archetypes), not sure if you'll notice that, but that's the main difference. I highly doubt the Pacenti rims will be that much stiffer than your archetype rims though. Might be worth finding hubs with wider/taller flange geometries for better stiffness.

I was impressed with the stiffness of the Ksyrium Elite wheels, I'm pretty sure the Ksyrium Pro and Pro SL will both be just as stiff, if not stiffer. My main gripe with the mavics is that I doubt they'd be very aero (even the bladed spokes on the Elite were quite thick - the Pro and Pro SL will be even thicker). You don't really 'feel' aero gains when you're out riding, but the numbers tell me they are always there.

_________________
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox

My Velocite Selene

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:37 am 
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istigatrice wrote:
Yeah, I take up a bit of running before/during road racing to slim down - but the raw power suffers (improves w/kg), so I try to avoid it during crit season.

I'm surprised you find the Archetype combo lacking in stiffness. I recently built a BDOP LT alloy road kit (Novatec hubs, CX-Ray, Fratelli FX-1722 rims) and I'm really happy with the stiffness of this build, even though the Novatec front hub is actually worse in terms of flange geometry (the rear is *slightly* wider though), and the build was a 20/24 build. Is it the front, or rear wheel which you find the stiffness lacking?

The Pacenti rims should be a good 70-80g lighter per rim (than the Archetypes), not sure if you'll notice that, but that's the main difference. I highly doubt the Pacenti rims will be that much stiffer than your archetype rims though. Might be worth finding hubs with wider/taller flange geometries for better stiffness.

I was impressed with the stiffness of the Ksyrium Elite wheels, I'm pretty sure the Ksyrium Pro and Pro SL will both be just as stiff, if not stiffer. My main gripe with the mavics is that I doubt they'd be very aero (even the bladed spokes on the Elite were quite thick - the Pro and Pro SL will be even thicker). You don't really 'feel' aero gains when you're out riding, but the numbers tell me they are always there.


It's the rear wheel. When I climb out of the saddle on short, steep hills, I can definitely notice that it's not super stiff. It's perfectly ok, maybe it's just in my head, who knows. The LBS already checked it and said everything's fine with it.

To be honest, I think that in the case of these wheels the aero difference is so small, it wouldn't make any real world benefits. It might be a couple of seconds on a 40k TT and obviously I won't use these for that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Belgium
would the inner rim width make such a big difference? :noidea:

i have got 2 sets of wheels atm: Tune Tsr 30 (i bought very recently to replace my crashed Cosmic Carbons), and a set
of Ksyrium Elite (model 2011).
The inner rim width of the Tune rims is only 13.6, should i use only 23 mm tires or can i use a 25 mm tire??


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
There is 2.5mm difference in inner width between Pacenti and Archetype rims. The SL23 rim is not stiffer. so with the Pacenti rim you get lighter rim (65g per rim) and a wider rim.

28mm tyres on the tune rims are wasted they wont be 28mm. the 25mm tyres will come up small so these or a 23mm tyre.

So you are getting flex on a 28 spoke archetype build. Well if that build is flexing everything will unless it is s32 spoke with sapim race spokes. Also when climbing (short sharp shocks) how can you tell the difference between frame and wheel flex, I know I can't I don't even try too.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:34 am
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I highly recommend you FFWDs F2A clinchers with 240s hubs. A very solid / light and easily serviceable wheelset. Plus the folks over at FFWD offer one of the best (if not the best) customer supports.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:39 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
So you are getting flex on a 28 spoke archetype build. Well if that build is flexing everything will unless it is s32 spoke with sapim race spokes. Also when climbing (short sharp shocks) how can you tell the difference between frame and wheel flex, I know I can't I don't even try too.


Yeah. It might be just in my head. It might be the compliance of the wheel, the wider rim and the frame. I use it on a very smooth carbon bike, so probably you are right.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 140
Location: Mid. PA. USA
I really like the wheels that I have built on the HED belgium rims. I had a set of first gen.Pacenti sl23 and like the ride of the hed built wheels better. They are a more solid build than the sl23 wheels. 20/28 build with WI T11 hubs.
I picked up a set of Industry nine TL25 wheels from my LBS and they are a sweet wheel as well. Been riding them for a few weeks this winter with conti. 4 seasons 25mm tires. I really like these wheels and the weight is in the decent at 1440.
I will see what they are like this summer when i put some miles on them but I think they me be my new favorite alloy wheelset.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 362
Location: Pa USA
I'm an advocate of wider wheels, but recently picked up a set of c24's (the RS80/81 version) and have to say that I'm very impressed. The hubs are very nice, the wheels seem stiff enough (I'm also only about 56kg) and the roll and ride very nicely. My issue with Mavics in the past is it seems that the stiffness can be overly apparent in the ride, but that may be psychological rather than factual. They have a pretty good cost premium for the quality.

Thinking about trying a set of Ardennes just to avoid having to futz with the brakes when going back and forth.


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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:01 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Posts: 4664
Location: Canada
Lots of talk about rims and spokes, but not much said about the hubs. Don't forget the hubs. There is a BIG difference between the Shimano hubs and those others on your list...


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