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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Location: Canada
kman wrote:
I don't see how it matters where the warranty claim is up to.
That is a fantastically timed photo though, thanks for sharing.



While it is great timing on the photo, all we have is one photo to look at and it can very easily be taken out of context.

em3 wrote:
...loose skewer led wheel to shift, than chain was sucked between chainstay and chainring when rider torqued on pedals (perhaps made worse if rider was also shifting under load), then chain simply severed the chainstay. My assessment is based on what appears to be an intact NDS dropout and a chain that is not visibly on the chainrings. It just seems that this sort of catastrophic failure is HIGHLY unlikely. Actual pics of damage will help solve this "mystery." EM3


This is my thinking as well, a loose or damaged QR combined with some non parallel (to the frame and wheel) torque. Specialized bonds the BB/chainstay assembly to the dropout much closer to the dropout than halfway so I don't think it would be related to poor bonding between pieces of the frame...

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Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:33 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:04 pm 
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+1 for the retarded owner theory.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Lets get Sherlock Holmes to investigate .


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:14 pm 
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I would like to see pics of the broken frame. There really isn't a spot where the chain stay bonds to the BB. It is all laid up and one smooth intersection.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 pm 
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I look forward to the frame pics.

Seems to me very unlikely to fail where you say unless broken by chain/rear mech coming through them (rear mech into wheel, dragged through stays by the spokes - we've seen this failure from bent hanger/poorly adjusted stop screws a few times). Either that or photoshopped image?


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:51 pm 
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artray wrote:
Lets get Sherlock Holmes to investigate .



I think he has already posted here, look at the different theories already posted.

From the picture and limited history it is impossible to tell without more pics or the owner posting what happened.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Photoshop - the person who took the shot isn't the person who posted it. There was no photoshopping involved.

The spot where the photo was taken is at the top of a nasty little climb where the race often breaks apart. Every year photographers are there.

After the race I looked at the frame and I and others do not remember seeing any marks on the inside of the frame, especially where the frame cracked.

Retarded owner theory - The owner is national level rider (podiumed a few times) who has raced for 30+ years. So we can discount that.

More photos - the frame is now at the shop where he purchased it from. No one knew that this photo existed until it was posted on RG. If I can get more I will pot them. I am not the owner.

Below is our local forum where this is being discussed:

http://www.roadgrime.com.au/forum/topic ... ost_101798

Like this forum there is a few different opinions.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:12 pm 
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If it were me, I would have had faceplanted or broken some bones. Good skill !


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:25 pm 
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I understand we only have one photo, can be taken out of context, conspiracy theories etc but still, I can't see specialized tuning in to WW to decide their warranty claim?
The theories will abound whether the photo is posted now or in 6 months or a year.

I'm making no judgement, I don't see how all these people are assuming it the owners fault or the QR etc based on the one photo. Sure it is possible but there could be dozens of different factors that contributed in some small or major way.
I just thought is was a cool photo with pretty special timing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Are you thinking of buying a steel frame Holmes?

I don't know Watson, i've heard great things about this newfangled carbon material.

Wasn't that Moriarty's crackpot idea a few years back?

It could be the only good thing Moriarty's ever given the world, Watson, that, and his solo bassoon renderings.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Quote:
Just so you guys know, the rider in the picture had a mechanical issue earlyer befor this happened ... not sure if he had the wheel swaped or just looked at but from what i have herd the wheel fell out of the dropouts or pulled out and thats when the frame broke, probably due to the quick realeas not being tight enough


Quote:
I was behind him on the first lap. Whenever he got on the power the wheel would jump to the drive side for a second and then back to its normal spot again. I thought he had a buckle in his Zipp but when he pedalled easy or coasted it was dead straight.I also noticed his gears jumped around at one stage.

I moved up and told him I thought his wheel axle was broken, as it certainly wasn't he QR. After that I stayed ahead of him as there was something seriously wrong with his bike and I didn't want to be behind it.


Obviously issues were there before the failure, but he kept riding anyway. OK, so it was a race, but you certainly can't say the rider was blameless in the severity of the failure.

Did the mechanical cause the failure, or was it a symptom? Who knows, but without more details or further inspection you cannot say this is a "frame failure", just as I cannot say it was rider error/poor build.

Either way, as others have said, cool photo with great timing, and great skills not to faceplant.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:03 pm 
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walkercycling wrote:

Retarded owner theory - The owner is national level rider (podiumed a few times) who has raced for 30+ years. So we can discount that.


Just because he has raced for 30 years and is national level doesn't he is mechanically competent.

Just as lots of fast riders know their way around the bike, many (fast) riders have trouble lubing their chain or changing a flat.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:30 pm 
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breezerboy wrote:
Quote:
Just so you guys know, the rider in the picture had a mechanical issue earlyer befor this happened ... not sure if he had the wheel swaped or just looked at but from what i have herd the wheel fell out of the dropouts or pulled out and thats when the frame broke, probably due to the quick realeas not being tight enough


Quote:
I was behind him on the first lap. Whenever he got on the power the wheel would jump to the drive side for a second and then back to its normal spot again. I thought he had a buckle in his Zipp but when he pedalled easy or coasted it was dead straight.I also noticed his gears jumped around at one stage.

I moved up and told him I thought his wheel axle was broken, as it certainly wasn't he QR. After that I stayed ahead of him as there was something seriously wrong with his bike and I didn't want to be behind it.


...mystery solved, eeze peeze, as I suspected. Case closed.

On to the next case of user error disguised as "catastrophic" frame failure.

EM3

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:05 am 
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The term "catastrohic" frame failure wasnt used when I posted.

The frame cracked in 2 places, lets not forget that.

Was it due to the wheel, QR, rider error? I dont know the reason.

When looking at the frame I was very surprised to see how thin the seat stay was, I also have said if it was good enough for Fabian it must good enough for us. I am not a bike engineer.

If it was the QR, then this photo is a good example for all to make sure next time they race check your QR

I am sure when Specilaised see the frame they will advise, when I know I will post the outcome

and yes, great photo, and great bike handling skills. his 30+ years probably helped. :D


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Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:05 am 


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:07 am 
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breezerboy wrote:
Quote:
Just so you guys know, the rider in the picture had a mechanical issue earlyer befor this happened ... not sure if he had the wheel swaped or just looked at but from what i have herd the wheel fell out of the dropouts or pulled out and thats when the frame broke, probably due to the quick realeas not being tight enough


Quote:
I was behind him on the first lap. Whenever he got on the power the wheel would jump to the drive side for a second and then back to its normal spot again. I thought he had a buckle in his Zipp but when he pedalled easy or coasted it was dead straight.I also noticed his gears jumped around at one stage.

I moved up and told him I thought his wheel axle was broken, as it certainly wasn't he QR. After that I stayed ahead of him as there was something seriously wrong with his bike and I didn't want to be behind it.


Obviously issues were there before the failure, but he kept riding anyway. OK, so it was a race, but you certainly can't say the rider was blameless in the severity of the failure.

Did the mechanical cause the failure, or was it a symptom? Who knows, but without more details or further inspection you cannot say this is a "frame failure", just as I cannot say it was rider error/poor build.

Either way, as others have said, cool photo with great timing, and great skills not to faceplant.



"Obvious issues before failure" are still issues of failure.

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