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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:37 am 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I'm investigating a new set of handbuilt wheels for long distance rides - comfort and confident cornering are probably the key attributes - and am interested in trying one of the new wide style rim sets. Does anyone have any views on which of these make up a better wheel.
I am a clyde so strength is a consideration.

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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:37 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:42 am 
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Copying what I posted over at slowtwitch:

My friend and I had this same dilemma when building up our wheelsets. It's actually pretty nice as they're exactly the same, except for the rims. Both on Pro+ power tap hubs laced 3x to 28h rims (mine HED Belgiums, his Velocity A23s). Front is Chris King R45's laced 2x to 28h rims (again, mine HED, his Velocity). Having ridden both, I can't notice any difference on the road. We run the same tires/tubes, so the comparison is pretty straightforward. The biggest divergence comes from the quality out of the box. The HED rims I had were more radially true than his Velocity's, which led to a bit more even spoke tension on mine. He had to re-true them once or twice within the first 500 miles, but they've been fine for him since (for another few thousand miles). Mine have been fine, no issues whatsoever.

If there's a minor price difference, I'd go with the Hed's. The rim finish looks better to me, the quality out of the box was slightly higher, There was a weight advantage to the Velocity's to the tune of about 30g/rim lighter than the Heds, but these were meant to be very durable wheels so neither of us factored that in when we built them. Really though, you can't go wrong with either.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Thanks BeeSeeBee - that is really good to know - thankyou. One question - is there much difference between the rims' cross section shape - I can find cross section drawings of the Velocity on the net but not the HED - ie same sidewall height?, same shape generally?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:59 pm 
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The sides of the HED rims are more rounded instead of a straight V side. I'll second the fact that overall quality of the HED rims is significantly better. The joint is much smoother (welded and machined). You will never see it when the tire is on. They are more straight and round as well. The last 8 rims averaged 466g. For me, the added cost is worth it considering the effective life of a set of wheels.

Hope that helps.

-Eric

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:23 am 
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I'm not really saying anything different to the others, but maybe a glass is half full/ half empty view?

The finish on the HED is a little nicer -but I wouldn't go as far as what the others have said, I'd say it's mostly cosmetic. The reason I'd still consider the A23 is that depending on where you get them, the A23 can be almost half the cost and weigh less -I'd say they're a little softer in terms of sidewall wear but again not a huge amount. Will you be able to tell the difference when riding them? Not a huge amount I'd imagine? :noidea:



As a side note, who makes the rim for HED? Are they doing it in house? I've heard Velocity had supplied them with some extrusions for Cabon/Alum. clincher rims in the past but the individual rims don't appear to be something made by them anymore? They only appear to do 6061 stuff usually too.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:51 am 
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I cannot comment on the A23's, but I have just received a set of HED C2's. I have ridden 250km on them in the past week and can say that they are the most comfortable best cornering wheels that I can remember riding. it is the first set of wheels where I actually noticed a difference in the cornering handling of a set of wheels.

I had them built at a website and delivered here in Aus.

DT Swiss 240s hubs, DT Aerolite spokes (28f, 32r), Michelin Pro3 tires. They are not very light at this build, but feel great.

I weigh 210lbs, am 6'4", ride 4-5 times per week and don't treat wheels with as much respect as I guess I should.

Other wheels ridden:
Zipp 404 Carbon Clinchers ("feel" faster on a flat road and look cool).
Fulcrum Racing Zero (hugely durable, very very good wheels - but at least now, after 35k kms do not feel as nice as the HEDs)
American Classic 420's (broken after 3 weeks)
Shimano somethings (low end and broken)
TWE's (did not last long either)
Low end Campags that did not last


Last edited by drewb on Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Sorry if this is a hijack I was going to start a new thread but this is too similar. I am 205-210lbs and considering a new wheel build for my 63cm CAAD9. I have decided on the HED Belgium C2's over the A23s because I am assuming deeper profile = more strength, and to me welded/machined sound best to me in terms of personal preference (probably doesn't matter in practice).

I am a bit confued about appropriate spoke counts.

I was considering Chris King R45 hubs with CXray spokes, 32/28 or 28/24. Wheel builders seem to err towards caution and recomend the higher count option for a rider my size. Heds own 'stallion' builds of the Ardennes go for 28/24 (and switching to the Flanged versions of their sonic hubs) although with beefier spokes than cxrays.

I want the wheels for summer big/special rides and would not use them for year round training, I think 28/24 would be fine but as cxrays are effectively forged 1.5mm spokes would I notice extra flex and would it affect handling? I think they would be ok for me, due to my usage and that they will mainly be used for seated long rides not sprints and racing.

Then there are two off-the-shelf wheelsets that have confused me more.
- The Zip 101's with their wide alu rims have a very low count using 20 & 18 cx-ray spokes, yet claim to have a high weigh limit 250lbs or something.
- Industry 9's i25 uses the HED C2 alu rim with 24&18 cx-ray spokes, I emailed them they claim they would be fine for my weight and they don't specify a weight limit.

Does anyone know for sure whether use of straight-pull would make the difference with these two wheelsets compared to handbuilt with flanged hubs? I understand that straight pull is often used because its more appropriate for machined hub shells (whereas flange ones should be forged) as well as appearance/image. Do these wheels achieve higher tensions and rely on this?

Pete.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:38 pm 
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I have had good results with the A23 rims. They arrived round and true and the joints are perfectly smooth. Braking is excellent. They built up reasonably well although I have had to re-true them a few times. I place this fault with the builder. My build is 28/32 front/rear and they are comfortable and very solid. I always run them with 25 mm tires at 95 - 100 psi and the ride quality and cornering is exceptional. I am nearly 200 lbs.

What is interesting is that they are "heavy" at the joint so even with a long valve inner tube and the magnet close to the valve the wheel is still not balanced. Not a performance issue but noteworthy nonetheless.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Location: Portland
I've been loving the A23's lately. Reasonably light, build up strong. 20 front http://pdxwheels.com/2010/08/31/front-wheel/, 28 rear with a Powertap (I really need to get some pictures of that one up).

I also love the cornering feel, not sure if it's just my head playing tricks on me, but it seems smoother than narrow rims. I run 700x23s.

I've been racing and training on them and am very happy with the performance.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:50 am 
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Location: Alto, NM
The Hed rims are stiffer and more aero. There were some early reports of them cracking, but don't know if that has been fixed.

Oh... the Heds used to only come in 28 and 32h... is that still true?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:02 am 
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I was in the same position, but I was told by my wheel builder that the HEDs would be a bit stronger. I don't have them yet, parts had to be ordered, but hopefully I'll get them in the next week. rruff, according to wheelbuilder.com, the HED Belgium C2 comes in 20, 24, 28 and 32 hole counts.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:11 am 
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Location: Tennessee
ergott wrote:
The sides of the HED rims are more rounded instead of a straight V side. I'll second the fact that overall quality of the HED rims is significantly better. The joint is much smoother (welded and machined). You will never see it when the tire is on. They are more straight and round as well. The last 8 rims averaged 466g. For me, the added cost is worth it considering the effective life of a set of wheels.

Hope that helps.

-Eric


Was the 466g rim weight for the scandium or Aluminum ones?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:23 am 
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clingenpeel wrote:

Was the 466g rim weight for the scandium or Aluminum ones?


Probably the aluminum ones. Mine were 470 and 468 if I recall.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:36 am 
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I am running both (R45 on Kings and A-23 on Dura Ace) The Velocities are nice for the budget trainign wheels but the HED's are classy all the way. Much better finish and rim joint.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:58 pm 
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clingenpeel wrote:
Was the 466g rim weight for the scandium or Aluminum ones?


The HED C2 "Belgium" rims which I believe are aluminium with no scandium in the alloy.

-Eric

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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:58 pm 


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