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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
I'm thinking about selling my Merlin CR works 3/2.5 and getting a Moots CR. The thing is that I find the Merlin is stiff and handles well enough for me to race on, so I don't want to be downgrading in the performance department, but, I have always lusted after Moots. Anybody who has spent some time on both of these bike please chime in.


Last edited by bricky21 on Fri May 13, 2011 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:50 pm
Posts: 659
What size is your Merlin? I have no actual relevant info to give you but I'm interested in your Merlin frame.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
It's a medium


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:25 am
Posts: 130
Location: Long Beach, CA
I have the Merlin CR Works and have ridden a Moots Vamoots RSL. The RSL is definitely closer in geometry than the Moots CR to the Merlin CR Works. I crit race and do most of my mileage on the Merlin CR Works and absolutely love the frame and geometry. The 1" chain stays and S-bend seat stays on the Merlin are what I feel give the frame it's responsiveness. Also the tubing on the Merlin is much more aggressive than on the Moots CR, the RSL is a little more on par with its shorter headtube, larger diameter seat tube, oversized downtube and race geometry. Having said all that I would definitely ride the Moots RSL if I had a choice between the Merlin and a Moots. There is something very unique about Moots. I have a 96' Moots Vamoots and will never get rid of that frame. For the money though the Merlin CR Works is the best racing frameset you can buy IMHO. The tubing, craftmanship, durability, stiffness and weight are very hard to beat and I believe rival that of the RSL.

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Felt DA(RIP), Look 595, Merlin CR Works, Calfee Tetra Pro, Moots Vamoots


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
I agree with you that the Merlin is a damn fine race frame. I like the fact that the head tube on the Moots cr is taller, as it just means no spacers under the stem.
The saddle to bar drop would remain the same. The geometry between the merlin and the moots is pretty similar.The moots has 3mm less on the chainstays, 2mm more BB drop, and the taller headtube than the merlin, and the seattube angle, headtube angle, trail, and front center are the same on both bikes. My concern isnt with the fit but rather the performance between the tubesets and design.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:25 am
Posts: 130
Location: Long Beach, CA
Well, I was trying to get to the point that the RSL seems to suit the need for what you are looking for but here is a better explanation:

"The RSL is stiffer than the Vamoots CR and weighs 15% less. An internally mandrel double butted and tapered Reynolds 3/2.5 tubing. Objective: To develop a tube set that maintains a very high outside diameter-to wall ratio to provide greater stiffness at the bottom bracket while reducing weight and maintaining comfort. Result/benefit: Top tube; 20% lighter, seat tube; 15% lighter and 9% larger, Down tube; 2% lighter and 7% larger, chain stays; 9% lighter and 22% larger. The decreased weight and increased tubing sizes provide maximum stiffness. This translates to greater power transfer from rider to bike."

Like I said I have rode the RSL and it is the only model I would even consider trading my Merlin CR Works for.

_________________
Felt DA(RIP), Look 595, Merlin CR Works, Calfee Tetra Pro, Moots Vamoots


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
I get what your saying.
I'm not interested in the rsl because of the money I could have gotten a great deal on the cr, but I passed on it because I just like the Merlin too much.
Thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:47 pm
Posts: 2
bricky21 wrote:
I'm thinking about selling my Merlin CR works 3/2.5 and getting a Moots CR. The thing is that I find the Merlin is stiff and handles well enough for me to race on, so I don't want to be downgrading in the performance department, but, I have always lusted after Moots. Anybody who has spent some time on both of these bike please chime in.


I realize this is an old thread but it can't hurt to try. Did you or are you still considering selling the Merlin? I'm seriously interested.

Cheers,
n


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Yep, I sold it a few years back. Wish I hadn't.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:47 pm
Posts: 2
I hope you like the new bike though. Did you get the Moots after all?

Cheers,
n


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
No I didn't get the CR. I got a Parlee which I sold a while back. Currently without a ride, but hopefully I'll be on something Ti in the not too distant future.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Wet coast, Canada
This is quite the thread resurrection. On a tangential note, I have a ML CR Works from 2007ish. It is my travel bike because it is pretty bombproof for packing. However, it has a wicked death creak in the seat tube, specifically the alloy insert that is bonded in the seat tube. I have tried a few different seat tube clamps, tried securing the post with grease, carbon paste and dry, I've tried soaking the junction of the sleeve and seat tube with penetrating oil by drizzling it down the seat tube with the frame upside down (read someone with a Litespeed that fixed it this way).

Anyone have additional thoughts on how to eliminate this creak?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 719
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
When does the creak exhibit itself?

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg (retired)

Litespeed Xicon: 5.76kg (retired)

Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 339
Location: Taylosville, Utah
What is the "alloy insert bonded in the seat tube" you speak of? Other than the alu Merlin seat clamp, my seat tube is all ti.
I use a Pro carbon seatpost on mine. Never had a problem. Have you eliminated the saddle / clamp interface as the culprit?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Wet coast, Canada
I get the creaking when I am in the saddle and I hit cracks/bumps/irregularities in the road. I have eliminated all other sources, tried different seatposts, saddles.

For sure there is an alloy sleeve in my seat tube. I had an older Merlin Extralight (circa 2002) and it had the same design. Take off the seat post clamp and it is very easy to see it. I'll post a picture later.


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