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 Post subject: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
I will be returning home from afghanistan in a few long months and my wife has approved the purchase of $2000 of bike gear when i get back (kids, mortgage, etc.)

I have a set of mavic cxp22, 32h, with Bombproof Hubs on my rain bike and i have a set of second gen Ksyrium elites on my training/race bike.

I know that at this price point you can get really well made wheels that are crap, and really crappy wheels that are well made (i.e. bottom barrel from big name vs. top o' the line less known); so value is my biggest concern. The MOST wheel i can get for $2K is what i want as i probably will not buy more wheels for at least a few years after this.

The goal is to get lighter weight, and possibly less drag (weight wins) at this price point. Im pretty sure my ksyriums (2d gen) are like 1800 grams.

The durability of the ksyriums (over 5 yrs old) have me kinda sold on mavic, But willing to get whatevers more for my money.

Never ran tubulars so im kinda willing to entertain them (with a gatorskin); open to tubulars.


Looking for opinions, comments, suggestions, badmouthing; whatever


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 Post subject: Wheelset decision
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:49 am 


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 Post subject: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:50 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Poormans Canyon
Your question is open ended because you are not indicating your weight, the primary purpose of the wheels and the area topography you plan to use them on.
If you are up to 175 lbs you have a lot of decent, durable choices in the factory built racing type wheels. Durace 24 for climbing, Durace 50 for flat/rolling, Fulcrum 1 etc. are just a couple from a long list of good choices and if you buy them right you maybe able to buy both a low profile and a deep rim for about $2k.
If you are more than 230 lbs you start running out of choices on the factory built racing type wheels because they are not simply made for riders of such weight. Now you need more spokes, wider flange hubs, heavier rims. DT 585 or HED c2 or velocity deep v or A23 with King hubs and double butted spokes, 28/32 2x/3x or 32/32 3x would be solid builds for about $950 each.
Typically with hand built, custom made wheels you get better hubs than with factory wheels. The challenge with the custom is to find a builder who knows what he is doing.
One last thought on the subject; above the price point of about $1k you typically pay a lot of money for substantially diminishing returns as the driving factors are ultra light weight and aero. They both offer savings in power and time but not of any significance to mere mortals to make a difference, unless finishing a century 3 minutes faster is of any value to you.
Good luck with the remaining of your tour and stay safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
Dcgriz wrote:
Good luck with the remaining of your tour and stay safe.


Thank you!

Dcgriz wrote:
Your question is open ended because you are not indicating your weight, the primary purpose of the wheels and the area topography you plan to use them on.


Sorry, To elaborate:

I have weighed Between 185-195 depending on time of year for the last 15 yrs.

Purpose will be training for races (no Crits).
I train about 70-90 miles per week if my schedule allows.
I live in southern california (San Diego county) so its mostly flat, some rolling.

I would like to shave weight, increase stiffness , aero would be nice but not necessary.


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 Post subject: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:50 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Poormans Canyon
Deep rims in the range of 35 to 50 mm should be best for flat and rolling terrain. By definition they are more aero and stiffer than shallower rims.
I think the makes I mentioned before should still be appropriate although approaching the top end of their range.
For the custom, 20/24 bladed or double butted spokes should be fine, 24/28 would be more robust. Hubs like King, WI, Alchemy will be superior to what you find on the factory made wheels.
If you really want to splurge, consider the Enve 45 laced on Chris King R45 with cx-ray 24/28, radial on the front, 2x on the rear. They will run you about $2200 if you shop.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
@Dcgriz

Darn, you really have me thinking about custom now...
originally, i was looking at factory (i.e. Zipp, Mavic)

But... now thinking:
Enve tubular 45/65 on Chris King R45 with Cx rays are about $2000 so definiteley within my range.


Whats the deal with DT swiss aerolite spokes? why so much money? Worth it?

Also, I was looking at, and really interested in "prowheelbuilder.com", does anyone have experience with them?


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 Post subject: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:50 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Poormans Canyon
Elpimpo wrote:
@Dcgriz
Whats the deal with DT swiss aerolite spokes? why so much money? Worth it?
?


Bladed vs. double butted 14/15. If you have the legs to sustain speeds where aero makes a difference and if you are at the level that this difference would be significant to your end result then, yes, they worth the extra cost. If you look at them strictly from the best value angle, they don't worth the extra cost for the typical rec rider or wknd racer. However they do look cool and we have been trained to "expect" them on the high end wheels. Unfortunately, they did not buy me anything else but looks...

EDIT: I should also mention the minimal weight difference between the two although I do believe it is ill advised to select spokes on weight difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 222
I'd buy some boyd 50mm tubs for $900, to see if I liked the tubular experience. They look like a great value for the money, are a pretty nice aero 50mm, and I haven't seen anyone post anything but raving reviews about the service and company.

figure a couple hundred for tires...I'd then take the other $900, and apply it to the rest of the bike - perhaps a groupset upgrade, some ee brakes, and / or cranks.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
So many options!

I have started making a detailed spreadsheet and graph of all the wheels im looking at and there is alot.

aaric wrote:
I'd buy some boyd 50mm tubs for $900, figure a couple hundred for tires...I'd then take the other $900, and apply it to the rest of the bike - perhaps a groupset upgrade, some ee brakes, and / or cranks.


I Cant get on their website, my interweb is very limited. I saw a picture of them thats about it; Ill search this site and see what comes up. I do like the price and the idea of having $ for other things is appealing. My goal however is to get a set that I'd ideally keep for years as a 'race' set.


Dcgriz wrote:
Bladed vs. double butted 14/15. If you have the legs to sustain speeds where aero makes a difference and if you are at the level that this difference would be significant to your end result then, yes, they worth the extra cost. If you look at them strictly from the best value angle, they don't worth the extra cost for the typical rec rider or wknd racer. However they do look cool and we have been trained to "expect" them on the high end wheels. Unfortunately, they did not buy me anything else but looks...
EDIT: I should also mention the minimal weight difference between the two although I do believe it is ill advised to select spokes on weight difference.


Thanks, I also found (on this site) that the aerolites have a 6.2mm elbow vs 7mm for the CX's meaning the spokes will be closer to the hub where they meet, this difference, although marginal, phtsically makes sense in terms of why the wouldnt (nay, shouldnt) break as often. Im still In love with the custom idea.


Also, Im primarily looking at:
Zipp FC 303 Tubs
Shimano DA C35 Tubs
Custom Enve 45/65 tubs on King R45s
Ksyrium SLRs
Starting to look at HED wheels as well
Starting to look at Reynolds too

I'll be researching the BOYDs as much as i can (attractive price) but I also heard they are the ebay/china wheels with stickers.

If anyone can help me add or eliminate any one of these wheels, id appreciate it. My internet is very limited and i can only do so much research on this site (only bike forum i can get on out here :thumbup:)


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:14 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:31 pm
Posts: 34
Elpimpo wrote:

I'll be researching the BOYDs as much as i can (attractive price) but I also heard they are the ebay/china wheels with stickers.


That is not true about being eBay/China wheels. We do have our hubs and rims made for us in Taiwan (much different that China) and currently there are a few other brands that use similar components, but they are very high quality components (we are actually in the process of designing some cool new things for 2013). Anyway, we hand build all of our wheelsets here in Greenville, SC. None of the wheels we sell are the same as the direct from China or eBay listings.

I don't want this to sound like an ad, I just wanted to clear any confusion that there may be.

If your internet is limited and you do not have access to our website you can always email me directly at "boyd at boydcycling dot com"

_________________
http://www.boydcycling.com High performance wheels you can afford


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
Understood, I was just saying what someone told me. That same person swears by taiwanese (hung fu, i believe) wheels he got off the bay. Its good to get info from the source. This doesnt take boyd off my list eitherway. I will be PMing you sir.


Last edited by Frankie - B on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
deleted the quote as this is a reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 2:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 1498
I'd look at the new Enve 3.4 tubs if you are considering the Zipp 303 FC. Those are similar and will be more aero than the 45/65 combo while being easier to control in the crosswind. Again, if you shop around you can find them cheaper than Enve retail, wheelbuilder.com is a good place and fairwheelbikes has a 10% off coupon on them now I believe (rims and complete wheels if I remember correctly) and are great people to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:23 am
Posts: 51
I'm sort of in the same boat (though not overseas in harm's way ((thank you for your service))

I'm looking at
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL $1200 (Don't see a ton of negative other than the 1740g weight)
Spinergy Stealth PBO $750 (CHEAP prices but relatively good reviews 1820g realistic weight)
ROL Matrix 38 $1350

I think I want an aluminum brake surface. I have read some horror stories specifically about the Easton EC90's coming apart during high temp braking.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:41 am 
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 5:25 am
Posts: 33
I have a set of Boyds 50mm(clinchers) with around 2500 miles on them,not one problem with them so far.The customer service is superb as well.Im building another bike and will use Boyds 50mm tubs on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 296
Location: FL
Boyds would be great buy if you want to get into a solid tubular wheel without killing your budget.

I would also look into some 303 firecrests if you can find them used on someplace like slowtwitch/ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 35
NWSAlpine wrote:
I would also look into some 303 firecrests if you can find them used on someplace like slowtwitch/ebay.


The FC 303's are quickly becoming my favorite wheel as im researching. Solid reviews and 1300g pair. Although I wonder about rider weight limits.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheelset decision
Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:59 am 


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