Here we go.

Have been racing on a Cervelo R3 and Zipp 404 tubs for 1 season and loved it. Absolutely loved it.
End of 2011 I crashed and had to replace the frame. Wanted to try the S-line I went for an S2. Same wheels, same components.

The thing is, I have been racing on the S2 with Zipp 404 tubs for 2 months now and...I'm not impressed! Comfort is more or less the same, both bikes are comfortable, clearly the R3 is more comfortable but I'm absolutely fine with the (already excellent) comfort of the S2.

What is failing to impress me is the 'kick'. The S2 seems to have no kick. And it doesn't descend as well as the R3. It doesn't corner as well as the R3 either. I thought the S2 was a speed demon (i.e. something that should corner better, and handle speed better in all circumstances).

And I'm talking about road races, not even crits. Good old fashioned road races around 100km. Yes, they are a bit windy here in the UK, rolling hills (no real hills). But the R3 was a better bike.

Today, during a descend exposed to cross winds, I had some scary moments on the S2/404. Never happened with the R3/404, and I went even faster downhill on the R3.

So (apologies about the long preamble) but I would love to hear your thoughts about this.

I'm so unimpressed that I'm thinking about selling both 404 tubs and frame and to get a black Canyon CF EVO with Shimano C24 clinchers (latex tubes and Veloflex Masters) with the proceed of the sale. And to transfer the SRAM Red. The new R3...am not interested, they changed the geometry. And I prefer the 'price' and look of the Canyon to the R3.

PS: The S2/404/Sram Red is in good nick, just as good as it was the R3. Same LBS (mechanic), both bikes well looked after. I'm 36, around 66kg, quite fit.


[Edited for typo]

For what you need and miss..You'd absolutely love the Canyon

A regular riding buddy of mine has a much loved R3 and just added an S5. He is not happy either. Mostly handling issues for him - similar concerns as you have.

I just don't understand why aero and good handling can't go together. Maybe it's just a Cervelo thing.

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Sounds like you're wanting that front end and bottom bracket stiffness the S series lacks when compared to the R series.

I agree, S2 is noodly...which is why I traded up for one of the stiffest frames ever made:

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Due to the urging of all the ladies...I do NOT shave my legs!

^and one of the bulkiest looking stems!

I would ride a Canyon before making a decision to be sure you are happy with the comfort and overall feel of the bike.

Also, why change the wheels if you were happy with them on the previous bike. Clearly if the wheels have stayed the same then the frame must be the culprit.

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Not everything that counts can be counted. Not everything that can be counted counts.

@Pantani: good point, I would change the wheels because with the Canyon I would have the freedom to choose low profile rims (they look ridiculous on the S2!). I believe C24 + latex + Masters would feel identical to top tubulars (but that's a different matter, let's not go there...). Tubs are fine but I could do without them right now as time is incredibly limited (small baby, busy job).

Canyon all the way, not sure if you know this but if you are member of a federation, you can get the frameset for 837,5£.
About the c24's: really good wheels, they smoothen the ride a lot!

Have a look at the Tarmac Sl4 in either guide S/works or not. These bikes are stunning for all terrain and ideal for the rolling roads in the UK.

I concur on the tub thing - but the difficulty is moving sideways back to clincher, though as others have said, there are some top notch clincher systems out there. I am looking at the Velocity A23 with DA hubs, CX ray spokes and decent rubber to move back to clincher as I dont race and want to get some very long solo miles in over the summer.

As for the S2, a great bike, but by no means an S3 which in turn had the same issues ref sidewind, descending badly. Having owned aero bikes and currently still so, I think that they are over rated and on borrowed time maybe.

I think Cannondale would agree. When they made the SuperSix EVO they found they could achieve an excellent aerodynamic profile without drastically overcooking the tube shapes, frame shapes, cable routing etc.. The head tube and down tube are 20% smaller in diameter, fork blades are 15% narrower, and the top tube's been tapered slightly in the mid section for a more "knees in" position to cut drag coefficient. The EVO is 695g in a size 56. According to Zedler Fahrradtechnik, it has the highest stiffness to weight ratio of any bike they've tested: 142 Nm-Deg/Kg (whatever that means).

If it was my money, I'd look at a Canyon, SuperSix EVO or Scott Foil. I quite like the new Focus Izalco too.


I've done 6000km on my RS80 wheels (cheaper version of C24?). They're very lively and responsive to acceleration. I'm very happy with them.

Wow that bike looks good!

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Curt Brown
2012 Cannondale Supersix EVO SRAM Red 10.8#'s
2012 Cannondale Super X 14.1#'s and dropping....
2011 Cannondale Carbon Flash 1 17.2#'s
1999 Cannondale F2000, SRAM XO 18.9#'s
http://cbevo.com/2012_cd_supersix_evo_31.html

Yeah...the System is stiff...way too stiff. Made my teeth chatter. Super sketchy cornering over rough road. It was fast and stable on a smooth road...but once it gets rough...all that "stiffness" bites back.

I'm on a S2 right now and I don't find it flexy at all. I'm alot more confident descending on the S2 vs my System. Out of the saddle I can't tell the difference between the two.

I'm just sold my EC90 Aero's...about to order up a pair of 404's.

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Looks good! What about blue hüdz?

I'm currently on an S2 myself. I had a Cannondale SuperSix 2011 before trading into the S2.

On my S2 - I had some stock rims and when first testing the bike, I felt like it was plenty stiff. When I put on some 404's however, I did experience a lot more of that "noodley" sensation some of you are talking about but I cannot attribute that to the frame primarily. Most of my competitive rides are straight and flat with a climb or two in between that's why I'm on an S2 now.

I do agree with you that the S2 is an awesome bike to descent on, but out of the saddle - I much prefer the Cannondale. I primarily got the S2 for the use of triathlons, but I do miss the stiffness that I had in my previous frame.

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Cervélo S2 2012 Red
Great minds think alike... sadly, so do the mediocre ones.