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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Location: flanders - belgium
How come there's so much FMB tubulars being used for P-R and so little Dugast. While in cross it's just the opposite?

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Last edited by Frankie - B on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Edited the topic title to be less random


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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:11 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Roubaix
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Location: Boulder, Colorado
My guess it that it's a matter of focus for the tire builders and the difference between road and cx casings and road and cx tread patterns. FMB just doesn't have the same level of tread design for cx that Dugast does.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:27 pm 
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We were just in the Ronde start area (and rode PR today-ouch). There were lots of both being used, rebaged poorly. Depends on the team. I know Vancansoliel was on Dugast and there were others.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:37 am 
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Hi,

Ever since someone (Boonen, wasn't it?) won P-R on FMBs a few years and since Dugast is really more into CX, you see more and more FMB on that event.

Besides that, it's a good thing they have more than one supplier for those extremely wide tubs as Dugast was really struggling to keep up with demand some years back.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:48 pm 
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He did it again. Sales will rocket?


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Roubaix
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:17 pm 
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lancejohnson wrote:
FMB just doesn't have the same level of tread design for cx that Dugast does.


IMO, this isn't true.

FMB tires offer more tread designs as "stock" options than Dugast, both will do custom orders. The FMB Super Mud is just as good as a Rhino in the slop, the Grippo XL is a great all around tire (old racing ralph tread), and their file tread is one of the best.

But, the good old typhoon is also a great all around tread and is a bit faster than the Grippo XL (I know FMB offers the Grifo tread on their casing, but I've always liked the typhoon better than the griffo for some reason).

Where FMB completely kills FMB (and likely why you are seeing them in use on the road so much... an not just for Roubaix) is in durability. The FMB sidewalls are simply better constructed and more durable than a Dugast. In CX, this means I get 2-3 seasons on an FMB, but a Dugast will rot out in a year of use.

Dugast quality control has really slipped over the years.... the company is just a shell of what it used to be. I've gotten so many out of round, tread glued on off center, tread pulling up, etc, over the last few years that I've all but given up on Dugast. Francois on the other hand has just a few people, working in a room or two, who really put pride into their work.


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Roubaix
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Briscoelab wrote:
Dugast quality control has really slipped over the years.... the company is just a shell of what it used to be. I've gotten so many out of round, tread glued on off center, tread pulling up, etc, over the last few years that I've all but given up on Dugast.

That's a shame. Did they just get too popular?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Location: Poland/Cracow
Briscoelab wrote:
is in durability


Can you say sth more about it? Have you used their road tubulars? In other words, how much durable are FMB's tubulars? Any mileage for example?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:20 pm 
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I have used both CX tubulars extensively. I've also used their road tubulars, but not for as many years.

Tread life isn't a concern for either, it's their sidewall durability. FMBs come from Francois with a very nicely applied urethane sealant on the sidewalls of even their standard cotton casing tires. It is applied evenly from tread to base tape and will not crack or peal up like happens if you put aqua seal on a Dugast yourself. It also won't let dirt/muck get under the coating.

For Dugasts I actually use something thinner than aqua seal for the sidewalls. I use Seam Grip, a tent seam sealer. It goes on like water (I use an acid brush) and three or so coats does a nice job. Still, the FMB coating provides better protection from water intrusion and abrasion than even the seam grip method on the Dugast.

Also, the attention to detail on glueing the tread on straight and overall quality control for tire roundness has been better from Francois than Dugast over the last several years.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Agree with Briscoelab about the sidewalls. FMB is a dream compared to Dugast. Used FMB both on road and CX and is on top of my want list. But get too good prices on Challenge for the moment.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Location: Canada
I have both the FMB and Dugast for road. I like them both and, in my experience, the quality is similar in both. The FMB Paris-Roubaix sidewall treatment does make them more durable, but the Dugast silks Paris-Roubaix are no slouches, either.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Location: Poland/Cracow
I appreciate your input guys. I'm still thinking about a set of good tubulars for my racing wheels and I'm just wondering if I should spend more for FMB. Anyway, it would be a good idea to know, at least approximately, the mileage. Even in our tubular thread it's rather hard to find such info. I know that when you buy a good tire it doesn't last for long, but maybe some experience? For example my rear conti sprinter after 1600km is a tad flat in the middle and I still expect at least 3x this mileage. On the other hand my friend's corsa evo sc after 1000km was really worn and he didn't expect more than 1000km more out of it. What about FMB?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Hi,

Durability (by which I assume you mean the tread wear rate) for FMB tubulars isn't any different than for a set of Veloflex, Dugast, Challenge, Vittoria and such. Some minor differences notwithstanding.
Basically, in a competition context, count about 6.000 km for the front tyre and 3.000 for the rear.

Outside competition it's any fool's guess really. I usually get twice the above figures out of my Veloflex, quite often even more than that.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:11 am 
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The mileage that you get out of a tire is very dependent on riding style and conditions. As a rule, I have found that the tread on a hand-made tire (if properly aged), will last as long or longer than a 'production' tire will.

After having ridden tubulars for 25 years, would generally second fdegrove's experience and say that I would expect to wear the tread off the tubular before I kill it with a puncture, but that is only my experience.


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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:11 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:54 am 
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
As a rule, I have found that the tread on a hand-made tire (if properly aged), will last as long or longer than a 'production' tire will.


Agreed and this is one of the reasons I often say that those tubs are actually dirt cheap.
Just for comparison sake I'd say I wear out the tread of a Conti Comp at around the 2.500km mark (rear wheel), whereas on a Veloflex Carbon it would take me at least twice that amount of km and some extra hammering too....

Ciao, ;)

P.S. @Geoff: Had your Governor over in Belgium on the 8th to pay homage at Ypres (Last Post WWI).

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