Have Colnago done away with the inner metal sleeve in the C60 BB?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

I notice on a new frame that there is no inner metal sleeve in the bottom bracket. The black screw in cups are still there but Im not sure what they are screwing into. Ive also noticed extra reinforcement inside the head tube that butts up to the headset cups.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Not that I'm aware of. The black Threadfit cups screw into the metal sleeve that is bonded into the BB lug.
And the headtube has alloy sleeves bonded into either end that the headset cups get pressed into. So not sure what you're referring to. Got any pics? Or have a look at my C60 thread as I've got some detail pics of both those areas and you can compare.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

IMG_3944.jpg
IMG_3941.jpg

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Calnago wrote:Not that I'm aware of. The black Threadfit cups screw into the metal sleeve that is bonded into the BB lug.
And the headtube has alloy sleeves bonded into either end that the headset cups get pressed into. So not sure what you're referring to. Got any pics? Or have a look at my C60 thread as I've got some detail pics of both those areas and you can compare.

Just put some pictures up. where is your C60 thread?

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Sorry, the link is in my signature but if you're using something like Tapatalk it wouldn't show up I guess. Here you go... viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391#p1273711

Headtube looks the same but would be very interested in seeing a shot of the BB area with the Threadfit cups removed (did you get the tool with the frame?). Also, what frame is it? Did you buy it new? It does look different for sure, but I see those two rivets in there which is what they now use to rivet a metal serial number plate on, correct. And those rivets are quite unique, in that they flatten out nicely on the inside to prevent pull through versus most pop rivets which just sort of expand into a bulb on the inside... I've torn apart a C50 frame to check that aspect out when repairing a brazeon on a Cannondale. Just wanted to experiment a bit first and had a destroyed C50 frame to play with. Was very impressed with the riveting of the brazeon compared to anything else I've seen. So those rivets alone lead me to believe that the frame is in fact not a fake, but would like to see more of that BB.

And here's a couple pics from that thread.... I do notice that the graphics on the Threadfit cups are also different.

A shot of the shell before removing the Threadfit cups... very clean and I checked tolerances with a really good set of Vernier calipers and was very pleased, especially compared with most carbon shells that take pressfit BB's...
Image

Here's a pic (not mine) that I found of the actual alloy sleeve that gets bonded into the C60 BB lug... and the tool to remove the Threadfit cups...
Image

The Threadfit cups themselves...
Image

Pleasantly confirmed that both sides of the BB shell were clean and faced properly underneath the Threadfit cups...
Drive side... notice the two notches which ensure there's no chance this alloy sleeve is going to come loose and start spinning in the shell..
Image

and Non-Drive side.... clean as a whistle as well...
Image
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

yes the graphics are different on the cups. Mine definitely doesn't have a metal sleeve. What year is your frame? This one is supposed be 2018. Its all white RSWH. There is no charging hole under the BB, apparently they've got rid of that now. I think its genuine but there is something odd going on.

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

I don't have the tool but my LBS probably does. Are they difficult to undo? I don't think your head tube is the same. Mine has an extra layer of carbon inside the tube.
Last edited by wilwil on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I actually got the frame around March, 2016... direct from Colnago America (it was not at a dealer). I think however they may have had it since the summer of 2015. So, what frame is this, and did you get it from a reputable dealer? Perhaps they just have two metal sleeves (with threads) on each side of the BB now, much like they do in the headtubes. Would be good to see it with the Threadfit cups removed... they're easy to just unscrew if you have the tool.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

This is a replacement for one that cracked in the head tube which also didn't have a metal sleeve in the BB.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

What model? Oh, I remember now... you were quite upset over the result of your warranty claim with Colnago... said the returned frame (a C60) looked like someone attacked it with an aerosol can. Very disappointed. Could we see some pics of the whole frame perhaps. My curiosity is getting the best of me now. So, this whole process, from initial purchase of the frame that cracked, through the warranty and eventual replacement frame that this one is, was handled through Colnago?
Last edited by Calnago on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

C60 with white lugs. Went back in April after three rides. Warranty replacement.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

And the dealer you went through is legit and all I presume? Where are you located if I may ask? If you're at all concerned that it may not be genuine, get in touch with Colnago and give them the serial number for more info.

One more question on the headtube. You seemed surprised by the alloy sleeves in your headtube. That's how they are. Why are you surprised, do you remember the headtube on your cracked frame as being something different in that area?
Last edited by Calnago on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

108465-1.jpg

looks like they have changed the graphics on the cups

wilwil
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Dealer is legit. Ive just heard from the dealer that they now do the insert on either side rather than as one. I wonder why? I also wonder if there has been a few head tube issues which is why they've added extra reinforcement. Did you fit your Campy cups dry? Loctite can only be necessary when fitting them into carbon. Previously Ive used Park anti seize but Colnago say dry.

Head tube is different from the last one. You can't see any second layer of material like you can in this one.

by Weenie


User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I've never heard of any head tube issues other than yours. And I'm not seeing any extra reinforcement in your headtube. Looks like they've always looked to me. Oh, I just reread your post above and you said you couldn't see any extra alloy below the cups edge on your old frame. Actually, that is good, better that you can see that sleeve better. When I removed the headset cups on my frame I really had to think long and hard about how to fit the removal tool against the cups edge without it catching the alloy sleeve as well because they were only 10mm deep and the cup flange was 9mm. So, I guess they made the sleeve a bit longer for that reason. Which is good. Perhaps you had one like mine before. It is fine, but you have to be very careful when the time comes to remove the headset cups, which is usually never.

As for fitting the Campy cups, I know Colnago recommends a dry fit. And Campy recommends use of retaining compound like Loctite 609 and primer with their cups. So what's a girl to do? Sometimes you have to use your best judgment on the application that you are working on. The Colnago Anodized Threadfit cups are alloy, threaded into the frame and in my experience very concentric, which is good. Quite a contrast to most carbon BB shells I've seen. If everything in a pressfit system is done to exacting tolerances, then dry fits are just fine since it is the actual interference fit that holds everything in place. As we all know by now, those exacting tolerances in most carbon BB shells are anything but, hence Campy's recommendation for a retaining compound. I would have been fine with a dry fit I suppose since everything appeared to be very good and the anodization itself prevents oxidation etc. But just to be safe, I went ahead and used a little Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste on both the threads of the Threadfit cups going into the frame and also in between the campy cups and the Threadfit cups themselves. Figured it can't do any harm, my only concern being it might create a lubricating effect like grease and allow the cups to move a bit, which is NOT what you want. But so far, so good. Not a peep. And if it did, I'd have no problem just removing them and installing them dry, or even using Loctite 609 and primer if I was to reuse the cups.
Sounds like you're good though and that they've just changed the way they manufacture the BB shell. For what reason I'm not sure... probably easier to manufacture I would guess.

Still would like to see a pic of the frame and the shoddy paint job, however.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post