Campagnolo integrated cups

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
marathon50
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:28 pm

by marathon50

Hi All
I have Campagnolo integrated push in cups fitted to my Time nxr frame
with Camp Chorus ut crankset. On first cycle perfect on second day out
I noticed a creaking in the bb when I got out of the saddle and put the pressure on
On checking when I got home noticed the cup on the drive side had come out approx 1 mm all
around. Pushed back in and refitted same thing happened next day out. Tried extra wavy washer stopped
cup coming out but creaking got worse.gone back to one washer now, has any one else had this problem
how did the solve, on looking at other threads they suggest using Loctite 641.
At my wits end creaking driving me arount the twist. Do you think its worth trying the 641
Thanks

DaveS
Posts: 2529
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

You have a major problem. The cups must stay in place in order for the wave washer to apply the correct preloading pressure to the bearings. Installing another wave washer or any other washer that effectively increases the width of the BB is the wrong thing to due. If the bearings are not ruined already, they will be shortly.

Loctite couldn't hurt, but it might also be wise to measure the frame and cups to figure out if one of them is improperly sized and not producing the proper press-fit.

by Weenie


thisisatest
Shop Owner
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Location: NoVA/DC

by thisisatest

as explained in other posts, a thorough degreasing of cups and frame, loctite primer, then loctite 6xx (there are a few suitable ones) will stop this from creaking for a very long time.
good luck
greg

musket
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:27 pm

by musket

It's a very common problem with many frames, and relates to the cup design. While Loctite bearing mount may fix it, it often won't. If that's the case, you'll need to mount the cups with something gruntier, like Hysol (or JB Weld). That works best if the cups are stripped of ano and lightly blasted.

As sad as it is, for many frames the best fix is a BB30 crank. Best done before the cup wears or damages the bb shell.
Don't be alarmed.

XCProMD
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

As DaveS says, one of the componnts there is out of the press fit tolerance. That's a dimensional problem. Loctite 6xx can help, but it is just a fix for a problem that results of poor quality manufacturing. I would use a micrometer to check out the dimensions of both frame and cup. One of them is beyond tolerance.

micropox
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:50 pm

by micropox

BB shell might be a little out of tolerance in terms of dimension. As a workaround. try removing again the cups. clean the cups and bb shell thoroughly removing any grease residue. Apply loctite 641 on the cups before pressing in. Allow for at least 24 hours for cure time. Hopes this helps.

Had the same creaking problem on my tcr advanced sl before. Did the same procedure and problem solved.

musket
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 5:27 pm

by musket

XCProMD wrote:As DaveS says, one of the componnts there is out of the press fit tolerance. That's a dimensional problem. Loctite 6xx can help, but it is just a fix for a problem that results of poor quality manufacturing. I would use a micrometer to check out the dimensions of both frame and cup. One of them is beyond tolerance.



Campy have acknowledged there's a problem with tolerances on cups, though of course that doesn't rule out frame too.
Don't be alarmed.

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

musket wrote:
XCProMD wrote:As DaveS says, one of the componnts there is out of the press fit tolerance. That's a dimensional problem. Loctite 6xx can help, but it is just a fix for a problem that results of poor quality manufacturing. I would use a micrometer to check out the dimensions of both frame and cup. One of them is beyond tolerance.



Campy have acknowledged there's a problem with tolerances on cups, though of course that doesn't rule out frame too.


I'd suspect the frame rather than the cups.

I dry pressed mine into my Cannondale SS 2 years ago, I'm 190# on a good day, use 180mm cranks, and I've never had a problem.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

em3
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Location: NYC

by em3

Use Loctite primer and Loctite 641 or 609 and your problem will go away. Use a bearing press to hold cups in overnight and u should be good to go. EM3
______________

thisisatest
Shop Owner
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:02 am
Location: NoVA/DC

by thisisatest

look into loctite 603. it's a little stronger than 609 (30% i think), and designed to be oil resistant.

marathon50
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:28 pm

by marathon50

HI all
Thanks for the replies and advise. Removed cups last night clean well and applied Hylomar 540
medium strength retainer similar to Loctite 641 I think. Went out this morning 106km route planned
with a good 8km climb after 50km avg of about 6% with spots of 9%. Everything seemed perfect
no creaking gave it a good push on a couple of short steep hills put it in to high gear no creaking
joy at last or so I tought, about half way up the 8km climb on a steep section got out of the saddle
there it was that creaking again not as bad as before but there, I was on the verge of throwing the bike
over the side. By the time I got home the creaking was as bad as before when pushing hard on an incline when out
of the saddle need to put in a high gear and sprint very hard to get it to click on the flat. The drive side cup stayed in
this time did not come out that 1mm as before as before
Training for the Marmotte in July so going to spend a good amount of time out of the saddle over the next 5 months.
Anyone any other suggestions after this episode. Also have fitted new bearings to crankset the are perfect,
fitted Token ceramic ones as the site I use were out of Campagnolo would this be a cause of my problem?
trying to tick all the boxes at this stage.
Thanks in advance
Greetings from Ireland

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Being too cold to ride this morning I spent some time looking at Loctite tech docs;

http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?countryCode=us&language=en&BU=industrial&param1=application%3D0000000290|action%3Dsearch|mode%3Dfaceted|

Lots of info here that i'm not fully qualified to assess.

Noted that cure time depends on closeness of fit as well as temp. 24hrs to full hardness in some cases.

603 looks to be the highest in bond strength, then 609, and 641 a distant third.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

OP was this a brand new frame?

Or perhaps shell worn from a prior BB30 install?

Alloy shell with the 2 machined grooves - right?

No circlips installed? They should not be.

Suggest you discuss with Time dealer too, as this is a bad problem to have, and I can see damage being done if it's not fixed.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

marathon50
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:28 pm

by marathon50

New Time frame. Have just changed from Time Speeder S which had the ut screw in cups
never as much as a squeek when I removed the crankset to change to new frame the bearings
were still in perfect condition after 6000k don't like these push in cups at all.

User avatar
bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

The BB30 tech spec site is not working. I was wanting to look up the ID tolerance for the shell as I'm suspecting the problem may be there.

Regardless, one option is to use the Cannondale type insert and go back to your screw-in cups.

Several makers

http://www.amorecycles.com/product.php?id_product=57

http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=BB30+to+English+Thread+BB+Adaptor&vendorCode=SRAM&major=1&minor=6
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

by Weenie


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