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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Location: Utah
jsinclair wrote:
Totally agree with you on those points. My original issue was that even though there will undoubtedly be a net loss in efficiency, when it's view as a percentage of the total system, it's still going to be way too low for anybody to start harping on about.


I hope this is not too OT but....

I am not a big fan of dics (at the moment :) ), but I have a few concerns.

I am in the medical field and Rule #1 is: Don't belive research that is produced by the manufacture who is selling/making it.

It seems in the bike industry that is all we really get (Adrian & Madcow from FWB are very valuable because of this=independant):
We get Aero charts from Zipp= wow Zipp, is fastest
WE get Aero charts from Enve= Wow, Smart sysstem is fastest
We get Aero frame info form "frame company = Wow there frame is fastest.
And there is no way to combine them because they do them differently.
(not to mention, most companies arent' testing the "whole system" with:
cages,
bottles,
rider,
jersey,
gilets,
helmet,
nor are they able to facter in (very well, as a whole and accuratly);
changing wind conditions,
riders changing directions,
the dynamics of the pelaton,
or group brake-away,
etc...)

I, personally, don't believe any of it (thier research could be correct, for all I know), but that is how I was trained. If I submitted research like that I would be laughed at.

I could be wrong (I probably am :noidea: ) but:

It seems like we are making "Mountains (minutes) out of Mole-hills (milliseconds)" :D
(and yes, milliseconds can make a difference in winning a race, but what percentage of cyclists are competing at that level - 1% ? )

But "in a nutshell", it seems the above quote seems pretty accurate. But what do I know I'm just in the medical field. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:52 pm 
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dyki wrote:
I don't really quite get the disc brakes on the road bikes. I've never had any problems with rear brakes - even in the wet, do we need more braking power there? I seem not to have any problems locking my rear wheel in any kinds of situations...

Is UCI looking into safety of the riders taking part in crashes? How many crashes have been caused by overreacting riders braking too much/suddenly/not needing any braking in the first place? Surely heated up disc could burn one more than a heated up rim? How about cutting through helmets and parts of the bodies - when are we going to see chopped of fingers in the crashes at races? In my opinion discs for MTB and CX are fine as they mainly involve high separation between the riders (except for the start).


I've heard it all now. Can't we just stick to facts instead of dreaming up scare stories. Can't imagine you needing brakes around Richmond Park.


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 Post subject: Re:
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:52 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Discs are going to be great. All the superficial arguments against disc brakes are not valid, because these arguments were the exact same ones that the MTBers heard back when discs were taking over the MTB industry. Literally the EXACT same concerns. ALL put to rest. And now, look at those guys. You can't find a rim brake on any high-end, or even mid-tier MTB today.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:42 pm 
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When was the last time you rode your mountain bike, fitted with 23mm wide tires, down a 20km or longer steep technical descent at 60-80km/h? Not saying that discs won't make their way into the road market, but the arguments against them in this application are far from "invalid". Disks are great for mountain bikes, where your rims might be coated in grit and mud most of the time. That is generally the exception in the road world, not the rule. I guess we'll see soon enough. Personally, I don't care one way or another, but I can't see myself running out to get a disk brake equipped road bike anytime soon.

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Last edited by Powerful Pete on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted quote. PP


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:16 pm 
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I'll be vain and just say it: they look ugly and inelegant. I hope they fail for this reason alone.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
When was the last time you rode your mountain bike, fitted with 23mm wide tires, down a 20km or longer steep technical descent at 60-80km/h?


Again. Been there. Done that. It"s really not an issue. Doing so on traditional brakes often is however.

As for the aesthetics, well I think the S5 and Venge are abominations. Styling is down to personal taste.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
bones wrote:
Discs are going to be great. All the superficial arguments against disc brakes are not valid, because these arguments were the exact same ones that the MTBers heard back when discs were taking over the MTB industry. Literally the EXACT same concerns. ALL put to rest. And now, look at those guys. You can't find a rim brake on any high-end, or even mid-tier MTB today.



When was the last time you rode your mountain bike, fitted with 23mm wide tires, down a 20km or longer steep technical descent at 60-80km/h?



Well as a matter of fact, just a little while ago I got back from my ride on 23mm tires and disc brakes. It was AWESOME! The Avid BB7 disc brakes work waaaaay better than the old Campy Record caliper rim-brakes that I also have.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
bones wrote:
Discs are going to be great. All the superficial arguments against disc brakes are not valid, because these arguments were the exact same ones that the MTBers heard back when discs were taking over the MTB industry. Literally the EXACT same concerns. ALL put to rest. And now, look at those guys. You can't find a rim brake on any high-end, or even mid-tier MTB today.

When was the last time you rode your ROAD bike, fitted with 23mm wide tires, down a 20km or longer steep technical descent at 60-80km/h? .....


Um, for the last 10,000 + km.

Never had an issue with locking brakes in dry, wet, downhill, emergency braking or all of the above.

its called MODULATION !!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:06 am 
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bones wrote:


Sweet. Who makes the Kona fork? I want to get one. Are you sure the 2011 Honky Inc model is a 370mm A2C? Was that a published spec? Or measured?


No idea who makes it, but it is different from the EVO fork.

I just measured it and it's actually 378mm A2C.

I tried to get one as a spare part once before. Neither Kona USA or the Aussie distributor were any help.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:40 am 
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Calnago wrote:
When was the last time you rode your mountain bike, fitted with 23mm wide tires, down a 20km or longer steep technical descent at 60-80km/h? Not saying that discs won't make their way into the road market, but the arguments against them in this application are far from "invalid". Disks are great for mountain bikes, where your rims might be coated in grit and mud most of the time. That is generally the exception in the road world, not the rule. I guess we'll see soon enough. Personally, I don't care one way or another, but I can't see myself running out to get a disk brake equipped road bike anytime soon.


Excessive power, if that's what you're arguing, shouldn't be an issue with 140mm rotors. If anything discs will improve modulation.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:52 am 
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Posts: 262
Wow, this thread has gotten long really fast. I admit I haven't read all of it, but I'm gonna add my opinion anyway.
I, initially was oppose to the idea, then I started thinking about the advantages in terms of wheel design. I completely changed my mind, and now I'm thinking, "Wow, what a stupid constraint to have the rims on your wheels, also serve as the braking surface". No, I believe the "disc brake" change is inevitable, and frame and rim designers/manufacturers will have to evolve to keep up (which they will). I think the evolution will be towards a rim that serves as support for the wheel, where weight and aerodynamics is critical, and a brake, where smooth modulation, strength, predictable stopping power, are critical, and no longer will either of those two design goals be compromised by trying to make one component do both.
But I could be totally wrong...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:31 am 
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Posts: 414
MichaelB wrote:
bones wrote:


Sweet. Who makes the Kona fork? I want to get one. Are you sure the 2011 Honky Inc model is a 370mm A2C? Was that a published spec? Or measured?


No idea who makes it, but it is different from the EVO fork.

I just measured it and it's actually 378mm A2C.

I tried to get one as a spare part once before. Neither Kona USA or the Aussie distributor were any help.



Oh man. I want a road fork with disc tabs too. There aren't too many options out there except for tall cyclocross forks. It would be nice if a carbon fork manufacturer would make a road fork with disc tabs.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:18 am
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Location: Boston
Well other than Wound Up, at the moment you can also get Calfee to convert an Edge fork to disk but it loks awkward as heck. Alternatively, I wonder what Volagi would say if one were to call them up and ask about ordering just a fork.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:50 am 
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Location: Los Angeles
One would think ENVE is going to debut a road specific disc fork at interbike. Along with other fork manufacturers.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:22 am 
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Location: Sydney, 'straylia
It'll just be this with less tyre clearance.


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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:22 am 


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