Colnago C59 disc brake

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes, what Madcow says.
Of course disk brake manufacturers would love to see this application applied to road bikes. Huge market, more dollars for them. They've got to be licking their chops over this. I'm not, for all the valid reasons mentioned. Production and compatibility issues are pretty big here. Not saying it won't gain traction, but it is far from inevitable as some would like to think. Progress is one thing, but it has to be progress and not just building a different mouse trap for the sake of building something different. Like Madcow says, the consumer will vote with their dollars and as with anything new, there will be a certain segment that will buy it for that reason alone. Good for them. We need "testers". Guinea pigs can't ride bikes. At least not yet.
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carbon2329
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by carbon2329

Good point Madcow.

With increaced wheel size the rotors might surpass an esthetic size threshold (not to mention if the front would require 2)

Colnago, I think you are correct.
It is interesting:
It seems like a large (Shimano :shock: doing it) attemp at something new.

ISP lack-of-traction (due to the fact is doesn't do anything to improve the frame, as advertized) is one thing, but this (because it is SHIMANO, and therefore frame manufactures have to do big shanges to accommodate, at at least add to thier existing line of frames) is another.

It will be interesting to see. As someone who enjoys riding and buying new cycling tech., I am suprised that I see this as a big inconvience, because this changes A LOT.
(brakes, group, wheels, frame, hubs, build-weight, etc...)

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

carbon2329 wrote:P.P.S. Does anyone else think it's funny that because disc brakes can fail if over heated the manufacturers will say,
"it is neccessay to pump/modulate when braking in order to reduce over-heating"
but...
That is what we are supposed to do with or current brakes as well, but.....
manufacturers will still say "dics are better" to sell them :?: )
Are there any disc brakes with temperature sensors which could provide some type of warning to the rider? If not, how difficult/expensive/heavy would it be to concoct such a thing?

hna
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by hna

Don't like it. What's wrong with the way it is now (other than keeping the disc brake manufacturers out of the road cycling market)? Disc brakes doesn't look any good, they aren't that much better than normal road brakes and I see more disadvantages than advantages really.

topflightpro
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by topflightpro

While I'm not a fan of the idea of discs on road bikes, I do like how Colnago appears to have used the rear brake caliper as a strut for the rear triangle.

With mountain bikes, the rear caliper is often mounted on the seat stay. To support the additional force on the stay, manufacturers of aluminum frames often put a brace between the seat stay and chain stay while on carbon frames, they beefed up the joint.

It looks like Colnago has mounted the rear caliper between the stays, providing structure between them. That is one of the more intriguing things I've seen.

bones
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by bones

Road Discs ----- 135mm hub spacing will be the standard.

Discs are going to take up space on the non-drive side of the rear hub. There needs to be a widening to 135mm rear hubs to make the rear wheel stronger. Then, we are on par with the MTB standard of 135mm wheels. And since the braking is at hub instead of a caliper, you can just swap your road disc wheels and put in some MTB disc wheels and head out to the woods for a ride.

Epic-o
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by Epic-o

topflightpro wrote:While I'm not a fan of the idea of discs on road bikes, I do like how Colnago appears to have used the rear brake caliper as a strut for the rear triangle.

With mountain bikes, the rear caliper is often mounted on the seat stay. To support the additional force on the stay, manufacturers of aluminum frames often put a brace between the seat stay and chain stay while on carbon frames, they beefed up the joint.

It looks like Colnago has mounted the rear caliper between the stays, providing structure between them. That is one of the more intriguing things I've seen.


Chainstay mounted caliper are not new, the Storck Rebelion 1.0 was the first MTB with this mounting position if I remember right and it was presented 3-4 years ago

MichaelB
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by MichaelB

As a rider of a road bike with disc brakes (1st was a modified carbon Argon18 Platinum with a CX fork, and the second is a steel framed roadie), they ARE the future, and despite all of the myths re locking, flipping AoT, cutting other riders in a fall, wheel changing, etc, etc, they DO work slightly better in the dry, and MILES better in the wet. :thumbup:

Haven't yet locked the front, even in the wet (even emergency braking ion a descent), and I use a 180mm front rotor. I think a 140mm front is too small, but I am not a light rider (90kg).

160mm works fine.

I have also used BB7's & G2 Cleansweep rotors, and the bike at the moment currently runs the TRP Parabox cable to hyd converter. I use the RT86 Ice-Tec totors with 180mm front and 160mm rear. The rear can probably go to 140 without issue, but can't be bothered yet.

It is early days, but as Volagi have shown, it is opossible to build a full carbon raod bike with discs (BB7 at that) and even with DA7900, have it at 7kg. So going lighter is not an issue with some tweaks.


If the only thing I can suggest, is that where possible, give it a try, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm waiting to buy the 2nd Gen Volagi with Di2 and hydro brakes. The shifters from Formula (and reportedly Tektro) open up even more options :beerchug:

Cheers

Michael B in Oz

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BeeSeeBee
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by BeeSeeBee

As someone who has almost no experience with disc brakes, I've been curious to see how they'll be adapted for the road since we've heard the musings for a few years now.

The one thing that struck me about the Bike Rumor article was the number of people coming out of the woodworks to blame it solely on user error. Looking at the data he gave, it was 3 minutes and 9 seconds until he crashed from the top of the descent, at and ~30mph that would put the distance at about 1.5 miles. Elevation loss of 493 feet puts it at about a 6.25% grade, so nothing extreme.

I'm not saying he's not at some fault for his setup, but it sounds like he was riding the way many people ride by dragging their brakes to modulate around a set speed instead of the hard, short bursts manufacturers recommended. 30mph isn't a particularly low speed, and being stuck behind cars descending 2+ mile descents is very common around here. And frankly, "you're doing it wrong" isn't going to sit well will most people. Getting riders to use the front brake primarily is difficult enough as it is.

I'm a light guy so overheating and breaking cycling components is pretty foreign to me, but will switching to rotors with better heat management, and better calipers completely solve the issue he experienced?

I don't think it's necessarily damning of discs on the road, but it does show that the application to road use is going to be different than many people thought. I'm glad it came out so people thinking they were going to be able to run small discs and super light calipers realize that's not the case.

Damon Rinard (Cervelo\Vroomen.White.Design engineer) said this about discs:

"We just got back from a tunnel trip and it's not looking pretty for disc brakes... I can't reveal the numbers yet but I'll just say that adding a front disc brake and caliper to any "superbike" would add enough drag to make it slower than some road bikes... "

So there's the potential to add 25-40W of aerodynamic resistance you have to overcome just by moving to discs. Obviously optimization and integration will come, but again, they're not some godsend, free from any faults.

I'll let others be the guinea pigs until we've gotten things ironed out, and standards set.

On the matter of the C59, I don't like the paint, something about light grey always looks like primer to me :noidea:

bones
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by bones

MichaelB wrote:
Haven't yet locked the front, even in the wet (even emergency braking ion a descent), and I use a 180mm front rotor. I think a 140mm front is too small, but I am not a light rider (90kg).

160mm works fine.


Cheers

Michael B in Oz



In general, in terms of stopping power...
140mm discs (hydraulic brakes) > 160mm discs (mechanical brakes)

And in terms of road bike aesthetics...
140mm discs (hydraulic brakes) > 160mm discs (mechanical brakes)

The problem here is this. There is NO other manufacturer of carbon road forks with disc mounts except for Colnago. All other carbon forks out there are made for Cyclocross frames.

petal666
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by petal666

Disc brakes and 11 speed freehubs, those rear wheels are going to suck.

RollingGoat
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by RollingGoat

bones wrote:
The problem here is this. There is NO other manufacturer of carbon road forks with disc mounts except for Colnago. All other carbon forks out there are made for Cyclocross frames.


Wrong sir:
http://www.cycleexif.com/independent-fabrications-2
I'm so rubbish at this.

bones
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by bones

RollingGoat wrote:
bones wrote:
The problem here is this. There is NO other manufacturer of carbon road forks with disc mounts except for Colnago. All other carbon forks out there are made for Cyclocross frames.


Wrong sir:
http://www.cycleexif.com/independent-fabrications-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




That fork is not a road fork. It is a WoundUp Cyclocross fork. The axle-to-crown height is too tall to be described as a true road fork.

soulbike
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by soulbike

I think all points here are valid. We are going to see more and more road bikes with disc brakes, it is not because SHIMANO is pushing it, or that it is useful. It is because it is something new. Manufacturers will come out with their road/ disc framesets very soon, next year will see all the shows flooded with these. If customers buy in, then they will continue, if not then they will go back to their previous models.

Personally, there will be a huge market for it, because many new customers will not know the differences, much like alot of new customers will also not know the difference between mechanical and electronic. It is the same as ISP, it's been what? 3 years now? and only slowly are we seeing how everyone is starting to move back to a traditional seatpost, in my view although some of these 'innovations' do not progress the design of bicycles, it definitely retards the growth.

Also what everyone seems to have missed is that there will be 2 new players for groupsets. At the Taipei Bike Show, we are already seeing TRP and Formula with their new electronic shifters which are compatible with shimano. So we are already starting to see how easy it is to create an electronic shifter....

Another thing that people are not seeing is the slow and inevitable standardization of bicycle componentry. 29er, cyclocross and road with discs....

Regards,
Sean

RollingGoat
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by RollingGoat

bones wrote:That fork is not a road fork. It is a WoundUp Cyclocross fork. The axle-to-crown height is too tall to be described as a true road fork.


A "true road fork"...what does that even mean?

Actually it's not a cross fork. The guy specifically says he didn't want a cross fork for this bike. It's their road fork with a standard width crown with just a little extra reach added in (still narrower and shorter than a cross fork though) to allow for fenders. It doesn't say in the article but the guy who owns the bike mentioned it in here on page 2:http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/if-disc-road-bike-23769.html

I talked to wound up the other day and they said they have no problem doing a normal length disk road fork if someone wants one.
I'm so rubbish at this.

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