HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28267 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 1607, 1608, 1609, 1610, 1611, 1612, 1613 ... 1885  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 1526
Location: around Paris
I don't know about that change Ultyguy :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:17 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm
Posts: 1150
ultyguy wrote:
(...) they endured over those years both physically and mentally.


that's a interesting thought. as for Froome, it's very likely things will go that way as there seems to be nothing out there to stop/distract him. Wiggins has obviously a different psychological construction, he appears as someone who thinks a lot about things, and in that case - i don't know if years of regime can serve him well. you really need to be focused and willing to make various sacrifices without looking back in order to maintain such a hard training programme and ultimately benefit from it. Porte's somehow between those two, a great engine, but what about his head?

_________________
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a.... clean cyclist!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2349
The OPQS pic - I am guessing it is optimising positional aerodynamics for lead outs.

IIRC the Brits (and probably others) did the same for the Team Pursuit.

The findings were that the most aero position for an individual may not necessarily be beneficial to those following. Also that the distance behind is not necessarily "as close as possible." Probably the other "mind blown" thing was that the rider in front goes faster when the rider(s) following are in the "sweet spot" (due to laminar airflow reattachment and other big words that elude me).

Or it could just be a marketing photo op. ;)

Ultra cool to see a pic of it though. Thanks for posting.

_________________
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3935
Location: Bay Area
You are quite incorrect about how they incorporate reverse periodization. They still maintain a very high early season base volume, its the duration of the efforts done in that period that increases, but they are still somewhat long durations for most riders (from what I've heard usually 10-30min intervals done at or above threshold with some spikes thrown in).

That is not what I would imagine the problem would be for newer/developing riders, but rather the approach of using the 1 week stage races within a training block and book-ending them with massive volume of 25-30hrs/week on either side. Maybe a seasoned guy can handle that, but I would imagine that it would be extremely taxing and kill speed for some of the more snappy types. EBH seems to have completely lost any snap that he once had. All the stresses of racing and traveling probably magnify the training stress of a block.

If you read interviews with Wiggo it seems that the dieting was much more stressful than the training as he had to maintain a weight that was almost 15lbs lighter than normal plus all the media hype/stress and it just got to be annoying for a goal that he was unlikely to repeat. JTL I just don't think was ready for the big time and sure maybe the volume sapped him, or maybe his bio passport results indicate something else was a bit more at play
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
Dombrowsky is coming back from knee injury, not the best preparation for ATOC. His best ride at pro levels was done under Trek/Bontrager development team.

Team Sky has peculiar training methods. Tim Kerrison practice reversed periodization.

The classic approach to training is to work endurance first and then do more specific/interval/intensity training to peak for a determined period of time and generally the rider would get on top form for a month or 6 weeks.

Reverse periodization means you always do specific/interval training all the season, but you start with short periods of intensity in winter and progressively lengthen the intensity work.
This kind of training is much more stressful/demanding for the body and mind. If, at one point you get physically or mentally tired, it can become a nightmare because the body doesn't answer as it should under effort.

When it's working you can have a very long period of good form, such as Wiggins in 2012 or Porte & Froome in 2013 when they basically won every stage race they would start.

In 2013 Wiggo couldn't mentally endure this kind of training, too much demanding. It is not surprising to see him performing in 2014 with a fresh mind/approach to the races. The Roubaix thing was the best thing for him. If you've had a look at Giro del Trentino, you might have seen him performing very well in the mountains despite having raced the classics just 10 days before and some kilos of overweight. (compared to his Grand Tour weight)

This kind of training method also naturally select the strong "pedigrees"/engines such as Ian Stannard, Geraint Thomas or Wiggins. Porte is having trouble this year but this training method did well during two seasons, but kill the weaker bodies or weaker minds (Tiernan-Locke for example who just couldn't adapt to the method)

_________________
Don't take me too seriously.
Bike
Strava


Last edited by KWalker on Thu May 08, 2014 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:00 am
Posts: 237
More OPQS wind tunnel action.

Image

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1503
Location: Geneva
Cav is getting so slow he needs an a$$ blocker now ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 1526
Location: around Paris
KW

Thank you for the precisions. May be I expressed it wrong.

Kerrison's strategy is that a well trained athlete doesn't necessarily need a long period of base level training to start the pre-season. That sounds both logical and controversary. Logical because 3 months of base level training on an athlete can lower his speed/intensity aptitudes and with the high level of professionalism now, a lot of riders have very short vacations/inactivity, or even would spend their hollidays at hiking/swimming etc... so why start like you had not done any activity in a year?!
Controversy because there are decades of good results achieved with traditionnal "pyramid" training (long base then intensity to peak)

I've heard some riders have issues with the metabolism going nuts and using fats as the energetic source during efforts so you can't accelerate when it matters, rider feels great form at 75%/80% of intensity but then can't follow the pace because his body is using slow energetic pathway... I read that from a guy with too much knowledge for me so I can't repeat exactly how it happens sorry.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3935
Location: Bay Area
My understanding is that they are not actually inactive for that long in the off-season and completely off the bike either. You are right that apparently earlier in the season they do some of the longer riders with low CHO before training, but from what I've been told their rides are actually well-fueled during the ride so I doubt the glucose contributions/glycogen contributions would be that low. Mitochondria serve as transport blocks in a way during glycolysis and even during primarily aerobic efforts and being able to support such transport requires adequate blood sugar concentrations.

I think what you pointed out is what I was getting at is that you take a bunch of younger riders and subject them to that kind of load and they might do OK at first, but after a while it can become too much. I raised my question because there are very few riders that Sky has truly transformed or made into consistent successes. People speak of their training and racing program as if its some massively successful paradigm and it was last year and the year before in stage races with key TTs and long, steady climbs, but their record of success elsewhere has not been so great. If they can burn out a guy such as Wiggins, who has years of road racing and track racing under his belt and has probably acclimated to the load over time then I would imagine a young guy such as Boswell probably would have a harder time with it as well. Or perhaps I could be wrong and these guys could be rockets in 2 years time, but seeing EBH go from the next big thing to progressively getting fewer and fewer results as time goes on would suggest to me that he has sacrificed a lot to be the 1st guy on the front on a climb.

_________________
Don't take me too seriously.
Bike
Strava


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 1526
Location: around Paris
About EBH it's interesting to see that he had his best ride last year at Tour of Norway after spending recovery time at home and may be ease on the training. Of course it is a lower level race but he seemed to have his best form, battling with Mollema in the climbs.

This guy can reach good form very fast/early but then stagnates. His weak point has been endurance for years and it is not getting better so it is time to change something or may be it's not training method's fault but just his body not conceding.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1503
Location: Geneva
EBH was a huge talent and probably still is, he just needs a change of scenery. Sometimes when you're that versatile it's probably difficult to decide exactly where to specialize. Not that I'm sure he could lose weight like Wiggo, but if he did, he could even be a GT guy. He's definitely lost his explosiveness. Remember Giro 2009, he was unreal!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:49 pm
Posts: 82
I think if Sky had been focused on EBH winning the classics and not all their time on winning the tour then I think EBH would have showed a bit more. I think a change is needed. The likes of Thomas, Porte etc are happy to be super domestics and take any chance that comes their way but they will always be behind Froome in the pecking order or even Wiggins. EBH looked like he would win bucket loads before he joined Sky maybe a change will see him start to live up to his potential.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am
Posts: 1355
EBH the rider attempting the classics and failing/sprinter came before EBH the domestique at the Tour

_________________
"Step forward the climber and all those who worship at the altar of lightness" - R. Millar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1503
Location: Geneva
Nino Schurter at Romandie, amazing how chunky a normal sized person looks next to all the greyhounds of pro cycling.

photo from cn
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 1408
i learned something new

Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:05 am
Posts: 375
Location: Perth, Australia
Man, $47,000 a year min salary to bust your ass, day in day out on the bike. Tough life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
Road bike: Pinarello Dogma 60.1
TT bike: Trek Speed Concept

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4XxCZagAjk


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:55 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28267 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 1607, 1608, 1609, 1610, 1611, 1612, 1613 ... 1885  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. 2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

in Cycle Chat

Frankie - B

0

963

Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:20 pm

Frankie - B View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling news app

in Cycle Chat

tinchy

3

502

Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:39 am

btompkins0112 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling in Burlingame

in Cycle Chat

KH1

6

268

Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:59 am

Dalai View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling in skiathos!

in Cycle Chat

Beancouter

2

338

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Beancouter View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling Technology

in Road

YinYang

4

1122

Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:12 pm

coloclimber View the latest post


It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:32 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB